Tracking over rock. Is it too easy?

[Scion]

Killing player abilities is never a good plan.

However, tracking something that is nearly impossible should be represented with appropriate DC's. Any first level character could make a dc 20 check, without a lot of problems.

Tracking someone across a heavily used stone floor a few minutes behind the person that you want to track with none of the circumstances working in their favor.... that 10th level tracker should have a chance, possibly even a good one depending, but only if he is very dedicated.

Plus, it will take time. Potentially a lot of time. If you make it possible but time consuming many players will still complain about thier powers being nerfed, cant make everyone happy

 

[silentspace]

I allow tracking in corridors. Never really thought about it. But now that I do, here's my rationale.

Tracking down a corridor is quite different from tracking outdoors. Outdoors, your prey can go in any direction and turn at any time. So tracking footprints is important. In a corridor, there's really only one way to go. So tracking happens at intersections, doors, etc. What you'd be looking for is some sort of clue, not necessarily footprints. It might be a recent scruff, a drop of blood, a slight scent in the air, tiny bits of dust in the air that have been disturbed. These could be perceived subconsciously by the tracker, and only manifest as a hunch.

Anyway, I like skills, and like to see them used. How often do your players get a chance to use the track skill? If you're going to nerf it, maybe tell the player and give them a chance to swap out the skill points for something else.

 

[silentspace]

I would also say that tracking indoors does not take time. Outdoors, you might be sweeping a wide area looking for tracks. Indoors, I'd allow it to happen in seconds.

If your players catch and kill the bad guy before you're ready to see him go, well, then it's time to cook up a new bad guy!

 

[Scion]

I like skills too, but you will have to explain how giving a circumstance modifier (which is part of the core rules) is nerfing it.

I am all about making skills more useful, but there are limits to what skills can do. Would you let someone track a flying automoton across an ocean of sand? I would, but it would be such a huge penalty that only the best of the best in the world would have a chance.

Same sort of thing here, base is 20 and then there is the fact that it is well traveled, that is a modifier, and then the pc's are a few minutes before, beyond that if there are a lot of doors that are opened all of the time the chances fall to near zero. I think that a dc of between 30 and 35 is more than reasonable.. making the success notices some very small detail that would've been overlooked by anyone else. Plus it would take time.

Not a nerf, merely useing the rules as written as best as possible. How would the pc's like it if they were being chased in the same circumstances and were trying to get away? I make the bad guys roll checks too. I think that the pc's would be more than justified to wonder why it was so easy to find them.

 

[silentspace]

I don't think raising the DC is a nerf. But ruling that tracking across stone floors is impossible is, IMO, nerfing it. It's a grey area though. I can see the rationale for not allowing it. I'm just saying I'd let the player know what your going to allow the skill to do and not do. That's all.

OTOH, the book specifically says tracking indoors is DC 20. So I don't think it's unreasonable for players to expect a DC 20 check. So from that perspective, raising it by a significant amount, like 30-35, is nerfing it, yes.

 

[Scion]

I dont think anyone here has suggested making it impossible. Raising the dc's with appropriate modifiers and thereby taking it out of the realm of possibilities for certain levels of competence isnt the same thing

Edit: Looking at it from the other side, if the pc's were in the same situation but fleeing would they expect a reasonable chance of success given that there is almost no way to leave any tracks? DC 20 is pretty paltry once you hit level 5 or so. Plus, circumstance modifiers are in the core rules, possibly more in the dmg than the phb. But if the players had a problem with the increased dc's then I will ask them what they think would have been the dc had they been retreating.

 

[Legildur]

I'm no expert on tracking, but at the same time I was a student on an Australian Army ambushing course, a good buddy of mine was a student on the tracking course. I was truly impressed by how much he learnt in 12 days.

I can only imagine what someone with real skill would be able to achieve....

As for tracking in the corridor, maybe one of the door handles was a little warmer than the others, or a thread dropped off his cloak, or.....

Shouldn't be easy, but neither is it impossible.....

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Again, what Hong said. Level 10 is not Epic, but it is epic. A 10th-level character can accomplish amazing things, and is vastly powerful and nearly legendary (see Legend Lore spell).
Don't underestimate how many clues there might be indoors - scuff marks on the floor, tracks in the small amount of dirt on the floor, one set of door hinges with a minutely smaller amount of dust, smoke from torches disturbed by movement of the air, etc. I believe the DMG says to be very cautious about using circumstance modifiers more than +2 or less than -2.
Here's another point - *don't* set the DC according to the PC's skill. Set the DC according to the book. Why? Because a player who has spent skill points on Survival and spent feats on tracking has sacrificed other skills - if you always make the check "Fred needs to roll a 15," whether it's his good skills or his bad skills, then Fred may as well not bother thinking and allocating points or feats. His strategic choices are irrelevant and only his dice rolls matter. (I have seen DMs before who basically think "rolling a 10 is a success at average things, rolling a 15 is a success at difficult things," and set the DC accordingly to account for - and thus negate - the PC's skill bonuses)

 

[Saeviomagy]

I dont think anyone here has suggested making it impossible. Raising the dc's with appropriate modifiers and thereby taking it out of the realm of possibilities for certain levels of competence isnt the same thing

Level 10

Spells available:
Locate object (level 3) - if the BBEG has a magic item, you know what direction he went, and can track him down as long as he's within 400+40ft/level

Locate creature (level 4)- see locate object, but now the BBEG could be naked for all you care.

Other spells like commune and the like are only a level (ie - 1 skill rank) away.

And for your information, taking something out of the realm of possibilities means "making something impossible".

So what if your precious BBEG can be tracked down a corridor - doesn't he have a better escape plan than that??

 

[dcollins]

I also agree with what Hong said on this one.