[TRAILER] Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Hasn't been excised Disney still sells it under the legends label.

For fiction, the term "canon" means "that body of work that is accepted to exist". By definition, if it isn't canon, it is not accepted to exist. That which is not canon may still be interesting, and may still be sold, but that doesn't mean it can be used as a measure of what actually exists in the fictional universe.

So, the Rakata? Not canon. The Jed'ii? Not canon. The Star Forge? Not canon. These things, though written about, are not accepted to actually exist. They are all.. speculative.

And, say, the Yuuzhan Vong? Totally not canon at this point. They do not exist. Jacen Solo? Definitely does not exist. Han and Leia had one kid in canon - Ben Solo. Ben borrows heavily from Jacen, but they are not the same.

There is a whole lot of Star Wars stories that do not exist.
 

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Too little too late by now. Disney wanted JJ to do a rehash nostalgia film and that's what he did.
I think nostalgia isn't all to it. Going back to the scenario from A New Hope in The Force Awakens makes sense for another season - the first Star Wars movie created the franchise. Without the appeal of its story, Star Wars wouldn't have become an international phenomena.
It did a lot of things right, both in story and visuals.
So if you want to capture a new, large, modern audience, it makes sense to go back to the original - everything that worked about it should still work today, and it might work even better, because Star Wars already is an established brand - this is the chance to capture a lot more people, and if the original "hero's journey" plot from Star Wars worked so well, it might lead to them wanting more.

I don't know how well it really worked out - well, obviously the box office numbers were great, the question is if the staying power they hoped for was there.
There is a lot more competition today, and obviously some fans were disappointed with the direction of the new movies (rehash, character assassinations, possible hooks from TFA ignored in TLJ and what-you-have). Some disgruntled fans prove nothing, however, because that always happens with sequels, prequels, continuations, reboots and what not, and online its difficult to get an actual measurement.
I suppose the apparent failure of the Solo movie is a more actual measurement, but its just a single movie, and the movie had problems even before he went to the cinemas. But obviously the brand Star Wars couldn't save it ,and that is probably something that would have surprised us 10+ years ago.

For me personally, the nostalgia aspects hurt more than they helped- I wouldn't mind Luke, Han, Leia adventures continue, but they just possibly can't with the original actors, and especially not in a way that would feel satisfying. They were "supposed" to have a happy ending at the end of Return of the Jedi, not broken apart by family troubles and seeing their accomplishments turned to ashes. It would have been nicer if that happened a few years after their death... The idea of something like the Empire returning back and a new generation of plucky heroes rising up to the challenge would have been more appealing if it wasn't on the back of my "childhood heroes".
 

1991
For me personally, the nostalgia aspects hurt more than they helped- I wouldn't mind Luke, Han, Leia adventures continue, but they just possibly can't with the original actors, and especially not in a way that would feel satisfying. They were "supposed" to have a happy ending at the end of Return of the Jedi, not broken apart by family troubles and seeing their accomplishments turned to ashes. It would have been nicer if that happened a few years after their death... The idea of something like the Empire returning back and a new generation of plucky heroes rising up to the challenge would have been more appealing if it wasn't on the back of my "childhood heroes".

I think it would have worked LONG ago when the Thrawn trilogy of books was released in 1991 or so. If Ford, Fisher and Hamill could have been recruited and adapt that series into a film trilogy, I think it would have been brilliant, and it introduced a cloned Emperor as an integral part of the plot. And a superweapon that wasn't a Death Star (was it called the Sun Crusher? I can't remember) and cloning facilities that keep pumping out soulless storm troopers.
 

For fiction, the term "canon" means "that body of work that is accepted to exist". By definition, if it isn't canon, it is not accepted to exist. That which is not canon may still be interesting, and may still be sold, but that doesn't mean it can be used as a measure of what actually exists in the fictional universe.

So, the Rakata? Not canon. The Jed'ii? Not canon. The Star Forge? Not canon. These things, though written about, are not accepted to actually exist. They are all.. speculative.

And, say, the Yuuzhan Vong? Totally not canon at this point. They do not exist. Jacen Solo? Definitely does not exist. Han and Leia had one kid in canon - Ben Solo. Ben borrows heavily from Jacen, but they are not the same.

There is a whole lot of Star Wars stories that do not exist.

Just as will I said it was star Wars didn't claim it's canon.

It was used as an example of over the top stuff. It still got made, still exists, even has star Wars written on it.
 

1991

I think it would have worked LONG ago when the Thrawn trilogy of books was released in 1991 or so. If Ford, Fisher and Hamill could have been recruited and adapt that series into a film trilogy, I think it would have been brilliant, and it introduced a cloned Emperor as an integral part of the plot. And a superweapon that wasn't a Death Star (was it called the Sun Crusher? I can't remember) and cloning facilities that keep pumping out soulless storm troopers.

3 different stories there lol.

Sun crusher is another silly example of can you top this.i can blow up a planet, I can blow up 5, I can blow up a star.
 

Just as will I said it was star Wars didn't claim it's canon.

Yes, but are apparently still ignoring the point that it is valid to say that if it isn't canon, it isn't "in Star Wars".

It was used as an example of over the top stuff. It still got made, still exists, even has star Wars written on it.

Yes, but if you have, say, a really ugly pair of burnt-umber bell-bottom pants that don't really fit any more, crammed in a bag intended to go to Goodwill in your closet, it is fair to say that pair of pants really isn't "in your wardrobe".

The tropes of non-canon materials should not be claimed to be tropes of Star Wars, overall.
 

Yes, but are apparently still ignoring the point that it is valid to say that if it isn't canon, it isn't "in Star Wars".



Yes, but if you have, say, a really ugly pair of burnt-umber bell-bottom pants that don't really fit any more, crammed in a bag intended to go to Goodwill in your closet, it is fair to say that pair of pants really isn't "in your wardrobe".

The tropes of non-canon materials should not be claimed to be tropes of Star Wars, overall.

I think part of the problem is they ignored or we're not aware of things done 25 years ago.

That stuff still exists, millions of people consumed it, people didn't get mind wiped and Star Wars made a lot of money on years with no movies via toys etc.

Ironically if I was grand high Poobah in charge of a new Star Wars trilogy I would have made a lot of the same decisions.

Disney is plugging a lot of elements of the old EU back into the new canon but I would have put some in TFA or Easter egged it.

Thrawns back for example.

Having three different directors not following the same script or storyboard is a big obvious derp. JJ wasn't the original plan for IX.
 

For fiction, the term "canon" means "that body of work that is accepted to exist". By definition, if it isn't canon, it is not accepted to exist. That which is not canon may still be interesting, and may still be sold, but that doesn't mean it can be used as a measure of what actually exists in the fictional universe.

So, the Rakata? Not canon. The Jed'ii? Not canon. The Star Forge? Not canon. These things, though written about, are not accepted to actually exist. They are all.. speculative.

And, say, the Yuuzhan Vong? Totally not canon at this point. They do not exist. Jacen Solo? Definitely does not exist. Han and Leia had one kid in canon - Ben Solo. Ben borrows heavily from Jacen, but they are not the same.

There is a whole lot of Star Wars stories that do not exist.

Canon is HIGHLY debatable.

In many instances Canon relies upon the original creator's consent to actually be official. In that light, the old EU is actually MORE Canon than the Disney stuff. It's not that Lucas wrote it or even said it was his own story, but that he at least approved of it being written and at times actually input specific ideas and decisions he wanted done with the over all storyline of the EU. (for example, he specified that they could not kill Jacen which led to Annakin Solo's death early on, and I suspect the entire Jacen plot overall had some relation to Lucas's meddling/input to the EU later on, though it was very limited in his input).

With Disney, they tossed any ideas he had input with the EU with the exceptions of the things that he had wished to be put into the Clone Wars. Disney really hasn't adhered to the "original creators" wishes and thus, in line with what is normally Original Canon, Disney really doesn't have it.

Thus, in reality, Lucas has his specific Canon, much of which we never saw. Then we have Canon of which he had a little input, but overall is NOT his, but he approves of it as an alternate universe or story to his. It is thus still an original, but lesser type of Canon (something similar would be the stories of DS9's later seasons and Voyager for Star Trek in relation to Roddenberry).

What they have would be Disney Canon or their companies Canon. This is not unusual and follows many properties. We see it with Conan, we've seen it with the Terminator, we see it with the MCU and many other properties. This type of Canon seems to change far more often depending on the whims of whomever owns the property at the time or is in control of the property. Sometimes it lasts a long time, sometimes it just has a reboot. The EU and Lucas's personal Canon are NOT part of Disney's canon. What is Canon from Lucas seems to be the 6 movies and parts of the Clone Wars animated series. I'm not sure if Lucas's Ewok movies are even Canon (I suspect they are not), or other small items Lucas has said over the years are also not Canon anymore, despite Lucas being the source of SW and those items.

So, just because it's not part of DISNEY Canon does not mean it is NOT Canon, it simply is not part of the Canon that Disney is endorsing currently (and that type of stuff changes on the fly, even in the short time Disney has owned SW, the Canon has changed a bit with some things being non-canon to suddenly being Canon and vice versa...it's shifting...much like a LOT of these market owned Canon things do).

Conan is a great parallel and example. Conan has had different Movie Universes (at least two) that have different stories to them, comics, and other things which are Canon to the specific companies that make the different types. These Canons have changed in various ways over the decades depending on who owns or is running the show.

On the otherhand, the actual stuff written by REH has basically stayed the same (probably because he is dead and is no longer writing any of it). Even with some new additions (pertaining to discovered documents which he wrote) it has added on and stayed fairly consistent.

With Conan you see several different types of Canon...however...ultimately it is up to the reader or one being entertained to determine which Canon they feel they wish to follow.

Normally, all things being equal though, it is the ORIGINAL CREATOR's Canon that is the baseline, and his approved additional sources (such as what Lovecraft did) can sometimes be seen as a secondary base...with the additional Canon's being unofficial in the long run and only followed by those who wish to follow that specific Canon.
 

Normally, all things being equal though, it is the ORIGINAL CREATOR's Canon that is the baseline, and his approved additional sources (such as what Lovecraft did) can sometimes be seen as a secondary base...with the additional Canon's being unofficial in the long run and only followed by those who wish to follow that specific Canon.
So is Keith Baker's eberron book on DMs Guild canon, or is the upcoming WotC hardcover?
 

Being a picky over what is canon doesn't really matter.


That's not canon either, doesn't change the fact it's had 18 million views.

Go to 2:27 and tell me that's not Star Wars lol. I don't even play this game.

Millions of people consumed that stuff for 23 years.

If Disney can't do better with billions of dollars it's going to get noticed.

No sequal trilogy of books in 91-93 no sequel. trilogy 2015-19. Star Wars was dead.

But yeah mid 90s would have been ideal time for sequels. Just based on the age of the actors if nothing else.

Alot of Disney decisions when viewed objectively make a lot of sense. Play it safe (after the prequels), female Jedi is new haven't seen that on the big screen, not adapting Heir to the Empire makes sense (actors are to old), new movie each year why not MCU does 2-3.

It's about what can look silly. It's hard to see the context for some if this as the Star destroyer may be coming out of ice but horsies in space dies look a bit silly IMHO even by Star Wars standard but it might be a cool scene in the movie. It's to early to judge one way or another.

Maybe they will make X,XI, XII one day. How do you top starkiller base? Lets blow up stars ZOMG.

The Mandalorian looks way more grounded and gritty and people seem to be going bonkers.
 
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