Training to Level

[Crothian]

Adventuring is training and practical experience too.

Adventureing is not training. When one trains they do the same moves over and over for possible hours or days. Adventuring is not.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I remember training rules being introduced in AD&D, and we'd never used anything like that in OD&D so the idea sat badly with us (for the reasons others have mentioned above), so we've never used training to gain levels.

I did at one point allow training to purchase xps though. If you recall, D&D originally gave you xps for finding gps. I never liked that, so I changed it to xps for spending gps. It was a 1 for 1 basis, but the maximum rate you could spend was 100gp a week, gaining 100xp a week.

It worked quite nicely for getting gold out of the campaign and allowing the calendar to advance a little.

 

[diaglo]

Bad idea, IMO. I'll give an example.

Fighter 4 about to become Fighter 5. He has the XP.

"Last few weeks [last level], I fought twelve new species, faced four different fighting styles, took part in three duels and won two of them, and personally killed fifteen gnollls. You're telling me during that time I learned nothing?!"

Adventuring is training and practical experience too.

IMO, training should only be used for skills that you didn't get to practice while adventuring. For instance, if last level, the bard never once swung a sword, then maybe he should ask the party fighter-type for some tips (eg training), or maybe get schooled by a higher level fighter.

PC(15 year old human): this morning i woke up. i fought a battle (opening session of campaign). half way thru the battle (new session) i ran for my life. and now i'm huddled around a campfire trying to avoid detection (new session).

earned enough xp to go up 1 level per day.

man by the time this PC is old enough to grow hair on his chin he is gonna be beyond epic and into the divine range.

 

[Jubilee]

I had a GM who briefly introduced training costs/time/requirements at the beginning of the campaign. It lasted until about level 5 or 6. I found that not only was it tedious and expensive, but also added alot more bookkeeping and calculating. It seemed doubly expensive to me, the archivist, because now I had to pay for my skill points (I had a pretty good int, so I had plenty) as well as buying new spells AND scribing them into my book. Once I got the artificer to make an aureon's spellshard it was a little bit better. We also seemed to spend an extraordinary amount of time re-explaining the concept to a few of the players and I spent alot of time trying to figure out how much time I had to make scrolls or scribe into my book before the bard was finally done training..

To make a long rant short, I am of the opinion that doing things to gain XP counts as hands-on training, and I am the type of player who either bumps up skills I use anyway, or if I'm planning to learn something new or get a craft/profession, I make a point of practicing IC.

/ali

 

[Kae'Yoss]

In D&D? Never. Serves no purpose except to screw players.

I like the way Rokugan handles these things. Rokugan is somewhere between class/level based and freeform. You can increase your traits and skills any time you have the XP for them (same goes for advantages, unless of course they're inherent, or they're granted and you don't have the prerequisites for it). But once you gain enough insight points to increase your insight rank, you need to see an instructor to teach you the next school rank technique.

 

[diaglo]

I had a GM who briefly introduced training costs/time/requirements at the beginning of the campaign. It lasted until about level 5 or 6. I found that not only was it tedious and expensive, but also added alot more bookkeeping and calculating. It seemed doubly expensive to me, the archivist, because now I had to pay for my skill points (I had a pretty good int, so I had plenty) as well as buying new spells AND scribing them into my book. Once I got the artificer to make an aureon's spellshard it was a little bit better. We also seemed to spend an extraordinary amount of time re-explaining the concept to a few of the players and I spent alot of time trying to figure out how much time I had to make scrolls or scribe into my book before the bard was finally done training..

To make a long rant short, I am of the opinion that doing things to gain XP counts as hands-on training, and I am the type of player who either bumps up skills I use anyway, or if I'm planning to learn something new or get a craft/profession, I make a point of practicing IC.

/ali

how long does it take you to learn a new language?

or to play an instrument prof enough to read music from a score?

or to condition yourself to run a marathon?

 

[Piratecat]

I require training.

It does, actually, serve a purpose other than to screw players. It does wonderful things for a campaign in which time needs to periodically pass; I've done one week of training per 2 levels, and I have no doubt that my plots and pacing has been better as a result. Even so, I've 'broken' my rule many times by providing occasional "you don't need to spend the actual time training" items or situations, and I doubt I'll use the same rule in my next campaign. My guess is that I'll still require some sort of training period, but it'll be less exacting.

One thing that both Sagiro and I do is allow magic item creation, research and training to happen simultaneously. That helps avoid an excessive time sink.

 

[el-remmen]

In my game some things require training: New feats, new skills, adding ranks to skills you haven't been using, new spell levels, certain class abilities.

Other you don't: BAB and SAVE increases, additional spell slots (until you train for a new spell level you can use your additional slots for lower level spells), new hit points, skills you frequently use while adventuring (based on DM descretion), certain feats (based on RP and DM descretion).

I only give out XP between adventures - so it is rare that you have the XP to go up a level mid-adventure. However, there have been times when time was an issue and PCs have gone on to the next adventure without completing training for individual facets.

For more info on advancement in Aquerra games, see: http://aquerra.wikispaces.com/Advancement

 

[Ghendar]

Bad idea, IMO. I'll give an example.

Fighter 4 about to become Fighter 5. He has the XP.

"Last few weeks [last level], I fought twelve new species, faced four different fighting styles, took part in three duels and won two of them, and personally killed fifteen gnollls. You're telling me during that time I learned nothing?!"

Adventuring is training and practical experience too.

IMO, training should only be used for skills that you didn't get to practice while adventuring. For instance, if last level, the bard never once swung a sword, then maybe he should ask the party fighter-type for some tips (eg training), or maybe get schooled by a higher level fighter.

I tend to agree with this. Seems totally reasonable to me.

 

[Turanil]

What I want to know is, how many of you require PCs to train in order to level and, if so, how do you handle it?

I may do that next time I run a campaign (if I ever find the time and players). Game system will be either True20 or Savage World, which means much less emphasis on XP than in D&D. As such, it will be a less painful implementation from the players' point of view. So, leveling will require time (days or weeks of training), mentors, or special secrets found in books/whatever (as in many Hong Kong Wuxia movies where heroes learn secret techniques from fabled books or legendary kung-fu masters). Yet, I need to think more carefully about this, and I will have more urgent things to do to prepare such a campaign.

My point is that I don't like the idea that experienced soldiers with years on the battlefields are still 3rd level when a PC fighter reaches 20th level before reaching 20 years old. But if it's a matter of special training difficult to obtain, rather than simply years of experience and number of defeated foes, my suspension of disbelief is less disturbed.

I did at one point allow training to purchase xps though. If you recall, D&D originally gave you xps for finding gps. I never liked that, so I changed it to xps for spending gps. It was a 1 for 1 basis, but the maximum rate you could spend was 100gp a week, gaining 100xp a week.

Interesting idea...