Trapfinding is an Anti-Ability

[Tequila Sunrise]

One of my pet peeves with 3e is trapfinding. It's not that I think it's not useful, assuming the DM is running your typical Indiana Jones trap-laden dungeon. It's just that trapfinding is a non-ability; it's a loophole in an artificial game rule limitation.

Let me put it this way: does anyone require a special class ability to make Spot checks against foes with +10 Hide bonuses or higher? No. So why require a special ability to make a Search check against DC 20 traps?

No good reason, that's why.

 

[Nifft]

It's called "niche protection".

It's the same reason nobody is allowed to be a better healer than a Cleric: it's not because healing is TOO MUCH FUN, it's that otherwise, they're worried nobody would play a Cleric.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Vegepygmy]

One of my pet peeves with 3e is trapfinding.

I agree. One of my house rules is that anyone can find and disable traps, but those with trapfinding get an automatic Search check to notice traps before triggering them (similar to how elves detect secret doors).

 

[Jeff Wilder]

You could easily take a cue from Pathfinder (got rid of the Track feat and gave rangers a bonus based on level). I think you'd want to adjust the DCs, personally.

 

[irdeggman]

Well as an equivalant you must have 4 levels of fighter class (or some of the other prestige classes that specify they count) in order to qualify for weapon specialization in addition to weapon focus in the specific weapon.

I don't see why this would be any different.

 

[Kask]

I allow anyone to search for a trap. However, that doesn't allow you to disarm or bypass it...

 

[green slime]

I also allow anyone to search for traps, but no one except the rogue is willing to spend the skills points to both Search and Disable Device.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I agree. One of my house rules is that anyone can find and disable traps, but those with trapfinding get an automatic Search check to notice traps before triggering them (similar to how elves detect secret doors).

In the past, I just let anyone search for traps, but I like this idea.

You could easily take a cue from Pathfinder (got rid of the Track feat and gave rangers a bonus based on level). I think you'd want to adjust the DCs, personally.

I think Jason made a mistake then. If track/trapfinding gives a bonus based on level, then high level tracks/traps become either automatic successes for rangers/rogues (if the DCs stay the same) or automatic failures for anyone else (if the DCs are raised to challenge rangers and rogues).

Well as an equivalant you must have 4 levels of fighter class (or some of the other prestige classes that specify they count) in order to qualify for weapon specialization in addition to weapon focus in the specific weapon.

I don't see why this would be any different.

Weapon Spec just makes a fighter a little better at what he can already do, not an ability that allows him to circumvent the "PCs cannot attack foes with AC 20 or higher" rule. That's why it's different.

TS

 

[irdeggman]

Weapon Spec just makes a fighter a little better at what he can already do, not an ability that allows him to circumvent the "PCs cannot attack foes with AC 20 or higher" rule. That's why it's different.

TS

But Searching and Disabling devices is what a rogue can already do too.

Whereas a fighter is a feat monkey with all of those bonus feats, a rogue is a skill monkey with all of those skill points and class skills (more of each than any other class). So somehow you have to give them something "special" or else the class is not so special anymore.

Now when they introduced skill tricks it was a great way to give the rogues something more to go on since they don't have bonus feats.

Bad comparison of AC 20 opponent and DC 20 trap.

Note that there are also spells that will duplicate the trap finding ability - so it is not quite as exclusive as you make it out to be, it is just easier for a rogue - as well it should be. Every class should have something they do better than other classes or else they run together.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

But Searching and Disabling devices is what a rogue can already do too.

Exactly. They already have Search and DD as class skills; they don't need some lame loophole ability to alert everyone to the fact that rogues can find traps.

Whereas a fighter is a feat monkey with all of those bonus feats, a rogue is a skill monkey with all of those skill points and class skills (more of each than any other class). So somehow you have to give them something "special" or else the class is not so special anymore.

I think 8 sp per level, skill tricks and sneak attack are plenty special. I also think that playing a rogue just to have someone in the party to disable traps is a horribly lame reason to play one.

Bad comparison of AC 20 opponent and DC 20 trap.

Actually, it's a great comparison. It's simple, concise and accurate.

TS