Trapfinding is an Anti-Ability

[Thurbane]

At the end of the day, it all just depends on what kind of game you enjoy. If you enjoy traps being very common and only Rogues (and a handful of other base classes) being able to find difficult traps, there is nothing wrong with that.

Conversely, if you don't enjoy traps being commonplace, and you would like for anyone to be able to find them, there's nothing wrong with running your game that way, either...

...it's all just a matter of play style preference.

 

[irdeggman]

What do you mean, "bump up" the DC? This is how the rules already are. I've never seen a trapfinder-type who didn't max out his Search and Disable Device ranks.

Given that only two core classes (ranger and rogue) have Search as a class skill, only one of them (rogue) has Disable Device, and the DCs for traps already insure that few if any members of classes for whom those skills are cross-class will bother to invest in them, trapfinding-as-niche-protection is essentially redundant.

It was supposed to be sarcasim.

I agree with you.

It is possible to take 20 on a Search check so without trapfindng as a class feature it is generally possible (and relatively easy) for a PC to get a 23-25 on a Search check by taking 20 (and having relatively few ranks in the skill).

 

[irdeggman]

At the end of the day, it all just depends on what kind of game you enjoy. If you enjoy traps being very common and only Rogues (and a handful of other base classes) being able to find difficult traps, there is nothing wrong with that.

Conversely, if you don't enjoy traps being commonplace, and you would like for anyone to be able to find them, there's nothing wrong with running your game that way, either...

...it's all just a matter of play style preference.

Yup - but make it "and/or" for commonality of traps. They don't have to be very common and have only rogues being able to find them. They can be uncommon and have only rogues (and handful of other classes) be the only ones capable of finding them.

 

[irdeggman]

Just offer Trapfinding as a feat for non-Rogues, if it bothers you so much. It IS a supposed class feature, though. So don't just give it out for free w/o giving the rogue something else in return.

Good alternate suggestion - then it functions a lot like the track feat - which would be a reasonable comparison.

 

[irdeggman]

One of my pet peeves with 3e is trapfinding. It's not that I think it's not useful, assuming the DM is running your typical Indiana Jones trap-laden dungeon. It's just that trapfinding is a non-ability; it's a loophole in an artificial game rule limitation.

Let me put it this way: does anyone require a special class ability to make Spot checks against foes with +10 Hide bonuses or higher? No. So why require a special ability to make a Search check against DC 20 traps?

No good reason, that's why.

How about this one.

All core classes have craft as a class skill.

It can also be done untrained.

But in order to create any item with the Craft (Alchemy) skill the character must be a spellcaster. Now it doesn't specify that you must be a spellcaster to take any ranks in the skill or even to use the skill - but only to create anything using it.

Why?

IMO the answer is the same as it is for the trapfinding ability - to make it more niche beneficial/specific.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Alchemy is another pet peeve. If it's magic, make it a spell. If it's not magic, a skill should be able do it.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Alchemy is another pet peeve. If it's magic, make it a spell. If it's not magic, a skill should be able do it.

Agreed. Alchemy has often been called "poor man's magic." It makes no sense to restrict it to real magic-users.

 

[Unkabear]

I have found that when I play a rogue if I even put points into disable device depends on the DM. I have played in games where if our party did not search and disable at every doorway and item to be moved we would pay for it. I have played in groups that they come up infrequently three times that I can remember in a three year run.

It really depends on if the game is of their own design, or a module. Will there be a mix of both? Does it really matter?

I enjoy playing the rogue for many reasons but I have yet to build a character around trap-finding as Combat tends to draw the focus of any game as to get into skills more than spot/listen can lead to players walking out of the room to see what is on TV.

I am grateful that my FTF DM does a very good job highlighting each of the players characters no matter their class. But not all games are like that.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I have found that when I play a rogue if I even put points into disable device depends on the DM.

That's a good point. I only use the occasional trap in my games unless a player expresses interest in being a great trapfinder--which hasn't happened yet.

TS