Treasure and leveling comparisons: AD&D1, B/ED&D, and D&D3 - updated 11-17-08 (Q1)

Quasqueton · Oct 4, 2006

Thanks Olgar Shiverstone and Slife. Of course, it’s just my luck that those numbers don’t come out to nice round figures for easy mental computing.

Quasqueton

Ghendar · Oct 4, 2006

Quasqueton said:
I will probably be adding data from other classic adventures as well.

Look at B5 Horror on the Hill. That module has a BOAT LOAD of treasure and magic.

I guess the level 1-3 pcs needed all that stuff to defeat the dragon at the end of the module. yes, that's right a level 1-3 adventure with a dragon at the end.

MerricB · Oct 4, 2006

Ridley's Cohort said:
The upgrading of the giants under 3e rules makes a huge difference.

Just a note: Giants were upgraded under 2e rules. They didn't actually change that much in 3e from 2e. They gained a lot of hit dice in 2e.

Cheers!

Delta · Oct 4, 2006

Random Comments:

- Yes, giants changed radically from 1st-->3rd Edition. 2E about doubled their hit dice. 3E piled on another factor from huge Constitutions. When I did a 3E conversion, I noted lots of EL 11, 13, 15 encounters in G1-3, with one each about EL 16-17 per module. Quasqueton, are you using 3E-style giants for the 3E XP? Because it's a very different adventure from the AD&D giants.

- Drow weapons in AD&D do decay in sunlight. But they also decay after 30 days, even in the underdark, anywhere other than the Vault. So in saying they're good throughout D1-3, you are assuming no more than 30 days of adventuring time.

- Using gem & jewelry "base value" expected values is the best thing. The increase/decrease table, by the book, was never included in modules -- by RAW you were supposed to be making those rolls on all the stuff listed in modules anyway.

TerraDave · Oct 4, 2006

It has been said before

This is such a great thread. I am really looking foward to more adventures being included. Just thought I would share.

Quasqueton · Oct 4, 2006

Quasqueton, are you using 3E-style giants for the 3E XP? Because it's a very different adventure from the AD&D giants.

I don't understand this question.

The AD&D1 giants give AD&D1 xp to the AD&D1 characters.

The D&D3 giants give D&D3 xp to the D&D3 characters.

Where you thinking I was giving AD&D1 xp to the D&D3 characters, or D&D3 xp to the AD&D1 characters?

Drow weapons in AD&D do decay in sunlight. But they also decay after 30 days, even in the underdark, anywhere other than the Vault. So in saying they're good throughout D1-3, you are assuming no more than 30 days of adventuring time.

The adventure text merely says, "They lose their power if exposed to sunlight."

The AD&D1 Fiend Folio says, "When these are exposed to direct sunlight, irreversilbe decay starts and the items will become totally useless in 2-12 days. If protected from sunlight, they will retain their special properties for 31-50 days before becoming normal items; and if exposed to the radiations of the Drow homeland for a period of 1 week out of every 4 weeks, the items could remain potent indefinitely."

Many of the drow-made items in the adventures are found outside the drow homeland. And so far in the adventures I've covered, the PCs are headed for the drow homeland. So, it is quite possible that these items will continue to function as magical for the extent of this entire series of adventures (from the time they are acquired). But anyway, it is rather redundant, as the PCs have plenty of magic items other than the drow-made stuff.

Using gem & jewelry "base value" expected values is the best thing. The increase/decrease table, by the book, was never included in modules -- by RAW you were supposed to be making those rolls on all the stuff listed in modules anyway.

The adventure module that prompted my questions on this subject actually uses the term "base value" for some gems and jewelry treasure. Plus there's all those treasures that merely say "X gems" and "Y jewelry" that pretty much requires the DM to roll on the DMG charts.

Quasqueton

SWBaxter · Oct 5, 2006

Quasqueton said:
I don't understand this question.

The AD&D1 giants give AD&D1 xp to the AD&D1 characters.

The D&D3 giants give D&D3 xp to the D&D3 characters.

Where you thinking I was giving AD&D1 xp to the D&D3 characters, or D&D3 xp to the AD&D1 characters?

I would guess he was wondering if you were using AD&D giant stats for the D&D3 encounters, which would make an individual hill giant around CR 2 or 3, rather than 7.

Quasqueton · Oct 5, 2006

I would guess he was wondering if you were using AD&D giant stats for the D&D3 encounters, which would make an individual hill giant around CR 2 or 3, rather than 7.

I am truly stunned at the confusion someone must have about this data to even conceive of this kind of question. (I mean no offense to anyone.)

I am not running the adventures.

I'm simply looking at the encounters, adding up the gold values, noting the magic items, and figuring up the xp.

If an encounter has 4 hill giants:

I'm figuring up the AD&D1 xp for those 4 [AD&D1] hill giants (using the AD&D1 formula, including the xp for whatever non-magic-item treasure they have) and adding it to the AD&D1 xp for the AD&D1 characters.

Then I figure up the D&D3 xp for those 4 [D&D3] hill giants (using the D&D3 formula) and adding it to the D&D3 xp for the D&D3 characters.

Basically, it is a straight comparison -- how much xp would an AD&D1 party get against 4 [AD&D1] hill giants, compared to how much xp would a D&D3 party get against 4 [D&D3] hill giants.

Quasqueton

MerricB · Oct 5, 2006

Quasqueton said:
I am truly stunned at the confusion someone must have about this data to even conceive of this kind of question. (I mean no offense to anyone.)

...snip...

Basically, it is a straight comparison -- how much xp would an AD&D1 party get against 4 [AD&D1] hill giants, compared to how much xp would a D&D3 party get against 4 [D&D3] hill giants.

The problem being, of course, that AD&D Hill Giants aren't the same as D&D3 Hill Giants. They're different monsters. (If you compared AD&D2 Hill Giants against D&D3 Hill Giants, it'd be closer).

Cheers!

Delta · Oct 5, 2006

Quasqueton said:
I am truly stunned at the confusion someone must have about this data to even conceive of this kind of question. (I mean no offense to anyone.)

Geez, why do you have to be so antagonistic everything?

One option when converting the modules is to turn AD&D1 8HD hill giants into D&D3 12HD hill giants (CR 7). But then the required PC levels are different, the other monsters weaker in relation, etc.

A second option is to turn AD&D1 8HD hill giants into custom D&D3 8HD hill giants (CR 5). Lots of people do this to great efficacy. ( http://home.gwi.net/~rdorman/frilond/rul/dm/hillgiant.htm )

But whatever. Apparently I'm talking Greek.