Trip and Quick Draw: Would this work?

Epinephrine

First Post
Tripping is a pretty powerful effect combined with the 3.5 getting up from prone rules. One of the things preventing players (but not monsters!) from taking full advantage of this, though, is the options it allows opponents. Often what you fight has at least one of high Str, Dex, larger size, more than two legs, flight, or other things that give them a bonus on the roll at least equaling any bonus the player can come up with, forcing trippers to rely on luck at best.

So let's try to counter that reliance on chance. Let's say we've got a mid-level ranger, above 6th at least. He has Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Quick Draw, and two bandoliers specially designed to hold sickles, or some other means of carrying them. If he starts a round within ten feet of a non-flying opponent he can step in and try to trip four times. The -7 penalty to hit on the last two attacks doesn't hurt as much as it could because they're just melee touch attacks. If he fails the opposed Strength check he can just drop a sickle and quickdraw another, and once the opponent is on the ground and his full attack is over he can drop both sickles and quickdraw that greatsword on his back for the AoO. With four attempts, even a 40% chance to trip is pretty impressive.

If he can hold, say, eight sickles in the bandoliers he can do this at least twice per combat before resorting to good old-fashioned greatsword action, which also takes advantage of the high Strength he needs to get anywhere near 40% against Large or larger opponents. You can do the same with a fighter but expecting 17 Dex along with 13 Int and a high Strength is pretty iffy. And of course Enlarge Person only makes this many times better. So what do you think? Does this work or is there a rule we're misinterpreting or forgetting? If it works, does it feel balanced to you?
 

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Epinephrine said:
once the opponent is on the ground and his full attack is over he can drop both sickles and quickdraw that greatsword on his back for the AoO.

I wouldn't have any problem with him drawing his Greatsword even in the middle of his Full Attack action. If he succeeded on his initial trip, he could make his Improved Trip followup with either sickle (or an unarmed strike, perhaps), then drop his sickles, Quick Draw his Greatsword, and make his other three attacks with the big gun.

I wouldn't let him do any dropping and drawing or 5' stepping in between the trip and the Improved Trip followup, though - the extra attack is "immediate".

-Hyp.
 



I've been wondering about a similar concept involving a monk.

Hoping to build something along the lines of a dwarven monk (for the counter trip bonus) or perhaps human for the bonus feat.

L1 Stunning Fist (monk bonus)
L1 Dodge
L2 Combat Reflexes (monk bonus)
L3 Mobility
L6 Improved Trip (monk bonus)
L6 Defensive Throw (Complete Warrior)
L9 Elusive Target (Complete Warrior)
L12 Spring Attack

Or if human, take Mobility as the human bonus feat and grab Weakening Touch at 3rd to make the trip attempts a little easier.

I figured to base the trip attempts around kamas and use Defensive Throw, Spring Attack and Elusive Target to generate multiple trip attempts.

I think Hypersmurf stated in another thread that you can't make special attacks (like disarm, trip, grapple) as part of a Flurry of Blows, but my DM doesn't have a problem with that.
 

Legildur said:
I think Hypersmurf stated in another thread that you can't make special attacks (like disarm, trip, grapple) as part of a Flurry of Blows, but my DM doesn't have a problem with that.

That was someone else in the same thread.

I read it as Disarm is fine, with a special monk weapon or unarmed strike;
Trip is fine, with a special monk weapon (ie kama);
Grapple is not fine.

-Hyp.
 

Thanks Hyp,

But I thought the arguement around Flurry of Blows centred around use of the word 'strike'? No matter, it'll work in my campaign.
 

Legildur said:
But I thought the arguement around Flurry of Blows centred around use of the word 'strike'? No matter, it'll work in my campaign.

The benefit of Flurry of Blows is that you can make an extra attack (or two); the restriction is that all attacks must be with unarmed strikes or special monk weapons.

A Disarm or Trip or Grapple can substitute for any melee attack.

A Disarm with no weapon in hand is performed with an unarmed strike, and is therefore legal in a Flurry.

A Trip with no weapon in hand is an unarmed melee attack, but it is not performed with an unarmed strike. A Trip with a Kama, on the other hand, is performed with a special monk weapon, and is therefore legal in a Flurry.

A Grapple is not performed with an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon.

-Hyp.
 



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