Trip Fest

[Ogrork the Mighty]

You know, I just haven't seen this. We use special maneuvers, but only where appropriate. IME, the fact that the game allows for them means they happen at all, but I've yet to see them happen to excess.

And BTW, you know the whole "trip-AoO-repeat" trick doesn't work, right?

I have. Usually it's with someone who makes a tweaked out trip-monkey. If you've got good players who don't go for the cheese, then you're fine. But if you don't... :\

Yeah, I know. But nothing stops the trip-monkey from tripping the very next round. And it's not just trip. Sundering can be just as bad. Or grappling. The special attack routines, IMO, need to be a little better balanced. I'd be happy with something like making a special attack routine as a standard action rather than as part of a full attack. But hey, that's just me.

 

[brendan candries]

PHBII: Combat Acrobat. dc20 balance check to remain on your feet.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Sundering can be just as bad. Or grappling. The special attack routines, IMO, need to be a little better balanced. I'd be happy with something like making a special attack routine as a standard action rather than as part of a full attack. But hey, that's just me.

There are many of us who argue that, per the rules, Sunder is a standard action. You are completely justified IMO to make it so in your game.

 

[mvincent]

There are many of us who argue that, per the rules, Sunder is a standard action. You are completely justified IMO to make it so in your game.

It's subject to some interpretation, and I'm fairly certain that the writer's intent was to treat it as an attack action.

Either way, for those that use the 3.5 FAQ as a rules resource; Sunder is treated as an attack action.

 

[nittanytbone]

Trip is AWESOME at low levels. The "balance" here is that at higher levels, monsters get bigger/can fly/have more legs/are stronger, and trip becomes somewhat less useful.

That being said, other than the defenses mentioned above, the best I can suggest is give the victims some intelligent counters.

They can throw nets (even with a -4 non prof penalty, its still just a touch attack) and then follow up with missile weapons against the immobilized PCs...

Use reach weapons and formation fighting to stay out of the range of the trip machines...

Bullrush the PCs away from tripped comrades to allow their allies to stand up again without the AoO...

Rush the PCs and overwhelm them (even a PC with 14 dex and combat reflexes only gets so many AoO a round... a half dozen orcs can charge in and grapple/trip him)...

Employ their own animal friends. Why can't the goblins have some pet wolves of their own to have charge in first while the goblins fire ranged weapons, scatter caltrops, and throw alchemical items?

 

[Aramis Simara]

What I think breaks these types of combat maneuvers or allows for misuse is the "improved" feats that remove the threat of an AoO. With the threat of a possible AoO to a character he's going to only use trip, sunder, bull rush when needed and not as a trip monkey etc.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

This is just one of those problems with 3E.

.. as opposed to earlier editions, where every combat was just "I swing, I hit, I swing, I hit?"

Bring on the special maneuvers!

 

[Deset Gled]

Sundering can be just as bad. Or grappling. The special attack routines, IMO, need to be a little better balanced.

I've never seen sundering to be a problem, because it means the players are destroying their own loot. This seems like a more than reasonable tradeoff to me. And grappling is potent, but requires a significant investment and is only usefull against one opponent at a time. Bull rushing is pretty difficult and requires extensive teamwork or rare circumstances to be effective. Disarming requires an opposed attack roll, so it is pretty simple to defend against.

In conclusion, I'll agree that tripping is a little off center (though I don't think its broken), but the other special attack routines all seem fine. Most of the time, unless a character is built specifically it, I rarely see them used anyway.

 

[Space Coyote]

A spell from the Spell Compendium called Foundation of Stone: As long as the spell recipient does not move, they get +2 AC and +4 bonus to resist bullrush or trips.

 

[Delemental]

Use nothing but snakes against them.

Yeah, but then they'll start to complain about wanting all of those *bleep bleeping* snakes off the *bleep bleeping* campaign.