Triple HP at 1st level?

[frankthedm]

That was actually one of the reasons the 3.5e Orc carried a falchion, instead of the 3.0e Orc's greataxe.

However, I'm also pretty sure that in 4e Orcs won't be opponents intended for 1st level characters any more. In 3e, despite the CR 1/2 they were stuck with, they were somewhat overpowered because of this huge attack they had.

Well part of that was

1, 1 HD Humaniods got the benefit of the non elite array 13, 12, 11, 10, 8, 9. That make the orc str bonus more noticable.

2. They had the same CR without much looking at of their mundane gear. I would not be surprised if Mooks, normal and elite distinctions have different assumed gear. Even if they have the same stats, 4e may separate this gruesome twosome above based on what equipment they have as a default, rather than just leaving a side note in the XP tables about harder and easier encounters.

3. Two handing a weapon with a hight STR was simple a better option in 3e combat.

TBH I would not be surprised if the base 4e orc only has +2 to str, rather than +4. Since 4e seems to be paying much more attention to damage output, they might wind up dealing less damage right out the gate.

 

[delericho]

There's a lot of work being done with the monster stats, roles and equipment in 4e. This is, IMO, one of the very best things about the new edition, and something that is long overdue. In particular, if the 'space out' the level range for Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins, Bugbears and Ogres, that will be a very good thing.

IOW, I agree.

 

[Commonblade]

Based on the Toughness preview (gave 3 hp at 1st and 1 per level afterward) I really think everyone will start of with tripple HP. This is really good for me as a DM because I really don't like fragil PC's at the beginning of a game. And it opens up the bottom of the levels again for me.

For those that don't like it, I would just divide up the exp needed to get to 2nd level by 3 and every time the Players pass that threshold grant them bonus HP.

Here is an example using the 3.5 xp table. 1st->2nd 1000xp /3 = 333.3333 xp
Fighter 1 0 xp - 10+Con Mod
Fighter 1 333 xp - 20+Con Mod
Fighter 1 667 xp - 30+Con Mod
Fighter 2 1000 xp - Level Up Normal

That should allow those who like low HP to start that way, but quickly level off the characters to the expect HP level. Anyway that is just my two cents on it.

 

[Greg K]

The new 4e rule of no confirmation crits kinda surprised me actually and I wonder if there isn't something we're missing (eg. your total score needs to be 5 more than the min. needed to hit or something for it to be a crit). The very reason they went with confirmation rolls in the first place was that so weak monsters who could only hit a target on a 19-20, weren't critting with half their successful hits.

I hope it is a natural 18 or higher and the roll must be at least 5 or more than the minimum needed to hit. This was how it worked in 2e PO: Combat and Tactics and I prefer it to the current method.

 

[Ian O'Rourke]

Stormtroopers' total ineptness was a flaw of Star Wars in my opinion, not a feature. YMMV. On the other hand, Boromir mowing down Uruk-Hai was fine with me, because he was supposed to be Gondor's greatest hero.

The Stormtroopers and the Uruk-Hai server exactly the same purpose in the story: as tough as nails and feared by everyone until they come up against the heroes of the story. There is actually no real difference between the two in a dramatic sense.

Any attempt to make it sound realistic, or 'explained', is purely a peace of fluff you satisfied yourself with.

At the end of the day, the Uruk-Hai / Stormtroopers are lethel until they met a main character.

 

[SlagMortar]

Personally, I like the feel of 1st level play where you can get knocked out of an encounter by a single blow. My solution would be to increase low level character's AC vs opponents attack bonuses rather than increasing hit points.

Since we are using Star Wars examples where those fated to be heroes are heroic at level 1:
Luke needed to be rescued from the sand people at the beginning of Episode 4. That's my opinion of how a 1st level character should be.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Any attempt to make it sound realistic, or 'explained', is purely a peace of fluff you satisfied yourself with.

That sounds very insulting. Is that how you meant it?
Boromir is the greatest hero of Gondor, a skilled warrior and veteran of many battles. The scene in LotR builds him up without diminishing the Uruk-Hai. He engages them one or two at a time and constantly retreats, calling for help. They are clearly a threat. I have no problem with a high-level PC being able to defeat hordes of weaker opponents, which is the Boromir scene. Frodo is also a main character, but if he had defeated the Uruk-Hai, I would have regarded the movie as worthless.

Stormtroopers, on the other hand, just seem incompetent. When they're attacking, the heroes survive not because the heroes are so skilled, but because the Stormtroopers are so pathetic. Perhaps it's the scripting, or the direction, or the acting, but you never get the sense that they are a credible threat. The line about their precision only serves to highlight how inept they are. If they were intended to fulfill a dramatic role similar to the Uruk-Hai, they fell far short of that in execution.

I want hobgoblins to be like the Uruk-Hai. Threatening one-on-one to rank-and-file human soldiers or low-level PCs, and in large numbers a credible threat even to a high-level PC. I don't want them to be like the Stormtroopers, who entirely fail at being a credible threat to low-level PCs.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

At the end of the day, the Uruk-Hai / Stormtroopers are lethel until they met a main character.

The Uruk Hai killed Boromir.
The storm troopers never killed a main character in Star Wars, ever. Closest they come are wounding them are capturing them.

 

[Belphanior]

The Uruk Hai killed Boromir.
The storm troopers never killed a main character in Star Wars, ever. Closest they come are wounding them are capturing them.

LotR is pretty uncommon in the way it killed off a main character. It's not really fair to use a pre-scripted, deliberate death to prove the skill of a fictional race of warriors.

In Star Wars the 'troopers miss for the exact same reason the Uruk-Hai don't: it's in the script. But even then Han and Luke took cover and ran away quite a bit from them. On the deathstar, on Hoth, on the Cloud City. On Endor, Luke's fight with troopers on swoopbikes made them look quite competent - just not as good as the Force-using hero.

Nobody just stands there and lets troopers blast at them. Only Jedi, the absolute badassest martial order in the galaxy, could consider using the D&D method (ie. stand there and let them try). Others run, dive for cover, ambush, or keep moving.

Even if they didn't kill Luke, Han, or Leia (though she got shot pretty bad), the stormtroopers were definitely credible threats.

But this is getting off topic.

 

[Remathilis]

The Uruk Hai killed Boromir.
The storm troopers never killed a main character in Star Wars, ever. Closest they come are wounding them are capturing them.

Clone Troopers killed hundreds of Jedi, including Plo Kloon, Ki Ali Mundi, Aalya Secura, and Shaak Ti.

Clone Trooper -> Storm Troopers

Uruk Hai < Storm Troopers

Next.