True20 questions

[Aus_Snow]

I haven't had my application for joining the True20 forums "approved by a moderator" yet (SOP?), so I thought I'd try these ones here.

Firstly, is the feat 'Lucky' absolutely beyond broken, or is that just my ability to understand something crucial involved somewhere in there?

Also, what would be some of the not-so-obvious follow-on effects of basing Toughness saves off Strength, rather than Con (a la Gurps)? It makes sense to *me* - and would alleviate my suspicions of things being weighted heavily against Strength - but I am still getting used to the system, so. . .

Lastly, wouldn't a Greatsword be a +5 damage weapon, as the Greataxe is? That would be according to the conversion rules in the main book, right? And, aren't the weapons (like scythes) that have less damage but somewhat better crits just in fact shafted, when compared with greater damage, average(/-ish) crit weapons? In comparison to the d20 originals, I mean.


disclaimer: mostly, I really like True20, and it is most excellent in many ways, so I hope no-one sees this post as being too anti- or whatever.

 

[LordEther]

I haven't had my application for joining the True20 forums "approved by a moderator" yet (SOP?), so I thought I'd try these ones here.

Hey, Aus_Snow. Yeah, I think there was a brief flood of threads involving pharmaceutical ads a little while back. Maybe they're looking a bit harder at new forum members because of that. Whenever you get there ( ), I look forward to seeing you on the forums.

Firstly, is the feat 'Lucky' absolutely beyond broken, or is that just my ability to understand something crucial involved somewhere in there?

Yeah, this is a bit of a sticky one. The general consensus is that Lucky shouldn't add to Toughness saves. It still leaves the issue of lucky spellcasters getting a bonus to their fatigue saves, but that might be in-genre for some settings.

Also, what would be some of the not-so-obvious follow-on effects of basing Toughness saves off Strength, rather than Con (a la Gurps)? It makes sense to *me* - and would alleviate my suspicions of things being weighted heavily against Strength - but I am still getting used to the system, so. . .

Well, Constitution would be much less valuable. The only reasons I can think of right now to take it would be for Fortitude saves or feat prerequisites. Hmmm... do you feel that, as is, Strength is comparatively weak as an ability score? Some people do. I look at it like this: damage infliction and reduction is a bit more tightly controlled than attack/defense.

While Dexterity is often perceived as an "ultra-stat," Strength is pretty solid, too. It provides a bonus to defense in limited situations (parry), and it provides a damage bonus as well. The latter is really difficult to get in True20, only available with a couple of specific feats (each of which only offer benefits in limited situations; with Attack Specialization, one must be using a certain type of weapon/attack, with Sneak Attack, one's opponent must be flat-footed, etc. Neither feat is a general feat). I think Strength is already pretty good, just because it does what so few other stats in the game do (increases damage). For some campaigns, though, I could possibly see a Warrior feat that allows a character to replace his Con bonus with Str for the Toughness saves... don't know what one would call it...

Lastly, wouldn't a Greatsword be a +5 damage weapon, as the Greataxe is? That would be according to the conversion rules in the main book, right? And, aren't the weapons (like scythes) that have less damage but somewhat better crits just in fact shafted, when compared with greater damage, average(/-ish) crit weapons? In comparison to the d20 originals, I mean.

That might be based on the old conversion rules. I don't have the new book in front of me, but in "old" True20, weapon damages used to be converted as following:
per d4: +1 damage
per d6: +2 damage (greatsword 2d6 = +4 damage)
per d8: +3 damage
per d10: +4 damage
per d12: +5 damage (greataxe 1d12 = +5 damage)

Again, I don't have the new book in front of me, but if the conversion rules have changed, the discrepancy might just be an artifact of the old system.

Hope this helps!

 

[Aus_Snow]

Actually, thank you LordEther, that does help.

I must have mixed up the d12 with the multiple d6 thing. Still, it seems a bit odd that 2d6 should end up as 4, and d12 as 5. I mean, Greatswords and Greataxes do essentially the same damage in d20. . . so I still demand the right to have a problem and be troublesome!



And yes, you're right - Con would become rather less useful, wouldn't it. That's the worst thing about the idea, I think. Other than that, it still makes a kind of sense, and would ease my mind on another front. But I'll give the system a bit more 'playtesting' (i.e., GMing) before I continue on that topic (if I do, in the end).

 

[Ruland]

I haven't had my application for joining the True20 forums "approved by a moderator" yet (SOP?), so I thought I'd try these ones here.

It's the same with me: I applied for the True20 forums nearly a week ago and still didn't get approved - for whatever reason.

Sigh.

 

[LordEther]

Actually, thank you LordEther, that does help.

I must have mixed up the d12 with the multiple d6 thing. Still, it seems a bit odd that 2d6 should end up as 4, and d12 as 5. I mean, Greatswords and Greataxes do essentially the same damage in d20. . . so I still demand the right to have a problem and be troublesome!

Oh, agreed! It was really troublesome for me converting certain weapons from other settings, such as the Iron Kingdoms, where the Caspian Battleblade, a huge, broad-bladed sword (2d4), winds up weaker than a longsword (1d8), due entirely to its higher minimum damage roll (2d4: +2 damage, 1d8: +3 damage).


As to the approvals... hmmm... I'm not sure what could be up. :\

 

[Plane Sailing]

Lastly, wouldn't a Greatsword be a +5 damage weapon, as the Greataxe is? That would be according to the conversion rules in the main book, right? And, aren't the weapons (like scythes) that have less damage but somewhat better crits just in fact shafted, when compared with greater damage, average(/-ish) crit weapons? In comparison to the d20 originals, I mean.

I'm looking at the True20 rules and I see battleaxe, sword, spear and warhammer all down as +3 damage weapons (axe as 20/+4 crit, sword as 19-20/+3, spear as 19-20/+4 and hammer as 20/+4). page 81.

Where are you seeing greataxes and greatswords?

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

Firstly, is the feat 'Lucky' absolutely beyond broken, or is that just my ability to understand something crucial involved somewhere in there?

Why do you consider this to be broken? The bonus is to Fort, Ref and Will saves (not to toughness saves), and it only has an effect if your character has put ability points into the otherwise wildly suboptimal Cha ability.

It is basically just the paladin schtick. I'm not sure what the problem might be (especially since there are no easy ability buffs to make this grow much higher).

Cheers

 

[LordEther]

I'm looking at the True20 rules and I see battleaxe, sword, spear and warhammer all down as +3 damage weapons (axe as 20/+4 crit, sword as 19-20/+3, spear as 19-20/+4 and hammer as 20/+4). page 81.

Where are you seeing greataxes and greatswords?

Cheers

The True20 Bestiary has an expanded weapons list in the Appendix. Maybe there. Again, I don't have it in front of me, right now, but I'd assumed it was the source.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I agree (now) about 'Lucky', Plane Sailing. The system does seem to more or less have a compensating factor built in. One last worry though - what about Adepts who choose to use Cha for their powers? Isn't it potentially at least a bit overpowered then?

The list of weapons is from the Bestiary, yes. The issue was/is only a minor one, and I can easily fix that problem, should I need to.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I agree (now) about 'Lucky', Plane Sailing. The system does seem to more or less have a compensating factor built in. One last worry though - what about Adepts who choose to use Cha for their powers? Isn't it potentially at least a bit overpowered then?

There's a thread on the True20 forums right now about potential houserule changes to Lucky. With a +2 Cha, the Lucky feat becomes as good as taking Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Lighting Reflexes with one feat, making it potentially very powerful, especially for Adepts.

Of course, I'm one of those GMs that makes people regret characters with -4 in a stat, so I see positive charismas far more often than negative ones.

I like the first idea proposed on the aforementioned thread, of it granting a +1 to all saves, including Toughness, and removing the prerequisite of positive charisma. Several other ideas are proposed, and are quite interesting, but the first is still my preference. Though thinking about the weakness of T20 Cha, I'm starting to change my opinion.

The list of weapons is from the Bestiary, yes. The issue was/is only a minor one, and I can easily fix that problem, should I need to.

You'll note that some of their weapons, such as the Scythe, do the better of their equivalent damages. Rather than the +2 of a 2d4 weapon, it deals the +3 of a 1d8 weapon. You can easily apply the same logic to the Greatsword, though if you do then I would advise you to give the Greataxe back it's higher critical; as it stands, the axe is +5 20/+3 and the sword is +4 19-20/+3. The weapons are actually equal, since the sword has a better critical. If you up the sword to +5 19-20/+3 then it is far better than the axe unless you also increase it to +5 20/+4.