Tryiing to find a feat.. for skills.

[irdeggman]

Except that the only skill that is broken, if all skills are class skills for all characters, is Tumble. That's because tumbling is so easy, with such low DCs.
Make Tumble an opposed check and you can delete the class/cross-class distinction without significantly altering game balance. After all, investing a skill point is an exclusive choice.

Try a few builds were cross-class skills don't exist and you'll see what I mean. While some characters will get better at certain non-archetypal skills, it won't alter game balance at all (with the exception of Tumble, if you don't change it).

You are missing the really big issue here.

If all skills are class skills then the character can more readily meet Prestige Class with X ranks in a skill prerequisite without having to take a certain class in order to be able to have max ranks equal to level +3 instead of the non-class skill limit of (level +3)/2.

Also try the DC checks for UMD to see something that really, really would have a benefit here.

 

[Bad Paper]

I never use Dragon mag cheese in my games, but there's a feat in #326(?) or so called Flexible Mind which allows you to assign two skills in which you have a rank as class skills.

There is also Apprentice from the DMG2 which allows you to forever stamp two skills as class skills.

 

[Storyteller01]

FFG's Traps & Treachery has Signature Skill. It makes one cross-class skill a class skill.

Rokugan has Versatile. Two cross-class skills become class skills.

 

[ValhallaGH]

If all skills are class skills then the character can more readily meet Prestige Class with X ranks in a skill prerequisite without having to take a certain class in order to be able to have max ranks equal to level +3 instead of the non-class skill limit of (level +3)/2.

I don't see a problem with this.

Really, I don't. If there is one then would you please be so kind as to point it out to me? Thank you.

Also try the DC checks for UMD to see something that really, really would have a benefit here.

... Umm. How would this be any different? Rogues, Bards and several other classes already get UMD as a class skill. If a Fighter had UMD maxed out then he wouldn't be able to do anything that those aforementioned classes couldn't already do, and he'd probably do it worse with a (probably) lower Cha.

If UMD is broken in the hands of Fighters then how is it balanced in the hands of Rogues?

 

[irdeggman]

I don't see a problem with this.

Really, I don't. If there is one then would you please be so kind as to point it out to me? Thank you.

Early qualification for prestige classes?

... Umm. How would this be any different? Rogues, Bards and several other classes already get UMD as a class skill. If a Fighter had UMD maxed out then he wouldn't be able to do anything that those aforementioned classes couldn't already do, and he'd probably do it worse with a (probably) lower Cha.

If UMD is broken in the hands of Fighters then how is it balanced in the hands of Rogues?

You mentioned tumble as the single skill that gets busted with this system, I pointed out that UMD would be worse. The effects are better and the DCs are higher (hence the advantage for having UMD be a class skill).

Having certain skills being class skills is part of the way classes are supposedly balanced with each other.

A single feat that allows all skills to be class skills is too much when compared to other similar feats (like those already pointed out). Generally these limit you to 2 skills per feat. The exception is the one that allows all knowledge skills to be class skills.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Early qualification for prestige classes?

I noticed that. I still don't really think it's a problem.
Most prestige classes are designed so that as soon as a character can meet the skill rank or BAB requirements, they can meet all requirements.
The majority of exceptions require disparate class features (castable spells, rage and turn undead, sneak attack and familiar, etc) that force a character to multi-class irregardless of the existence or non-eixstence of class skills.
The result being that either the character qualifies no earlier or they qualify one level earlier. I can't see a problem with that.

But I am willing to be shown the error of my ways.

You mentioned tumble as the single skill that gets busted with this system, I pointed out that UMD would be worse. The effects are better and the DCs are higher (hence the advantage for having UMD be a class skill).

It's because of those high DCs that UMD won't be worse. The effects are better but you can't gain those without a significant investment of character resources (especially for 2+ skill points per level classes) that takes many levels to really pay off. Also, you need to actually have a magical device to use (likely but still an often significant limitation). Finally, you are never guaranteed success when using magical devices; a natural 1 automatically fails.

Tumble, on the other hand, requires a total +24 check to do everything it asks for all the time, and +5 total check to do the best part of it reliably (55%).

Having certain skills being class skills is part of the way classes are supposedly balanced with each other.

Yeah. Balanced.

A single feat that allows all skills to be class skills is too much when compared to other similar feats (like those already pointed out). Generally these limit you to 2 skills per feat. The exception is the one that allows all knowledge skills to be class skills.

I completely agree. A single feat that deleted cross-class skills would be unbalanced.
Deleting cross-class skills for everyone, for free, would not be unbalanced*.
Which is what I was trying to say in the first place.

* Changes would be required for certain skills (Tumble) due to the ridiculous ease of their best effects.

Edit: My appologies for straying so far from the topic and into houserule territory. My original post was meant as a throw-away comment but there was a response and I felt the need to continue the discussion. I can take this somewhere else if anyone (especially the OP) prefers.

 

[irdeggman]

Edit: My appologies for straying so far from the topic and into houserule territory. My original post was meant as a throw-away comment but there was a response and I felt the need to continue the discussion. I can take this somewhere else if anyone (especially the OP) prefers.

Now I understand what you are getting at.

I didn't make the connection with the house-rules aspect.