TSR TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are).

The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time of writing).

The action TSR seeks is a "Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership" which is a court declaration about the status of something in dispute.

TSR has launched a campaign to stop Wizards of the Coast

Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.


The new TSR suffered widespread pushback when it launched, which they blamed on WotC, claiming that they were under a "coordinated assault across various channels being mounted.... by [WotC]" The company announced itself earlier this year, having acquired the TSR trademark after the previous holder accidentally let it lapse. It was run by Ernie Gygax, Justin LaNasa, and Stephen Dinehart. After several weeks of controversy, the company split into two -- Wonderfilled (Stephen Dinehart), and TSR (Ernie Gygax and Justin LaNasa).


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The page also indicates an intention to "fight to have WotC's legacy product disclaimer removed" from older products (that's the disclaimer on the older books available on DMs Guild which indicates that those books are products of their time) by claiming that the disclaimer portrays the creators of those older products as "as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products".


TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership . TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".


TSR3's Justin LaNasa spoke about the campaign in a YouTube video.


 
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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey


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Mezuka

Hero
I don't think grognards are the ones that made them rich. I might be misremembering, but WotC didn't become dominant at Hasbro until the last few years-- because of 5e and the younger/newer markets that came with it. That money came mostly from new, diverse blood entering the hobby, not by catering to old schoolers.
Correct, hard core old schoolers are proud to say they haven't bought anything D&D since Gygax was pushed out, or worst since OD&D came out.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Also, I'll add. If WotC never cared about any of that, then Peter Atkinson wouldn't have saved D&D. Which he did. He didn't wait for TSR to file bankruptcy, sending the IP to all the four winds as different buyers bought it up. He paid more for the company because he wanted to save the game as it was, with all of the IP in one place so the game could continue to be produced. He made it right with Arneson.

You say without grognards there wouldn't be D&D today. No. Without WotC, there wouldn't be D&D today. That's the fact. Not an opinion.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Gygax and Lorraine were both definitely trying to make money, but Gygax loved D&D, while Lorraine hated it and actively banned playtesting. She was just a spoiled little princess.
The more you post, the more you show you have no idea what actually happened.

I'll do you a favor.

Read the books by Jon Peterson and Ben Riggs. Watch the documentaries by Paul Stormberg and Pat Kilbane. They literally have the receipts.
 


Correct, hard core old schoolers are proud to say they haven't bought anything D&D since Gygax was pushed out, or worst since OD&D came out.
I still buy 3.5/Pathfinder 1E and earlier editions. Some 5E stuff looks interesting, but it has too much 4E taint for my tastes. I keep hoping WOTC will pick up their old product lines again. It won't happen, but that doesn't stop wishful thinking.
 


Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
I still buy 3.5/Pathfinder 1E and earlier editions. Some 5E stuff looks interesting, but it has too much 4E taint for my tastes. I keep hoping WOTC will pick up their old product lines again. It won't happen, but that doesn't stop wishful thinking.
With the OGL, why would WotC ever start putting out new product for AD&D? It's not worth their time. The vast majority of D&D players would never buy it. And the OGL gives all of us the tools to create it ourselves.
 

Also, I'll add. If WotC never cared about any of that, then Peter Atkinson wouldn't have saved D&D. Which he did. He didn't wait for TSR to file bankruptcy, sending the IP to all the four winds as different buyers bought it up. He paid more for the company because he wanted to save the game as it was, with all of the IP in one place so the game could continue to be produced. He made it right with Arneson.

You say without grognards there wouldn't be D&D today. No. Without WotC, there wouldn't be D&D today. That's the fact. Not an opinion.
A different company probably would have eventually "saved the day". ...but we'll never know.
 


Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
A different company probably would have eventually "saved the day". ...but we'll never know.
Yes, we do know. Because we have the people who were actually there to talk to. If Atkinson didn't buy TSR before it went bankrupt, all of that IP would have gone to the highest bidder and would have been split up all over the place. That would have been a disaster.
 



The more you post, the more you show you have no idea what actually happened.

I'll do you a favor.

Read the books by Jon Peterson and Ben Riggs. Watch the documentaries by Paul Stormberg and Pat Kilbane. They literally have the receipts.
I know Gygax had his poor decision moments a got periodically burned out, but he always loved D&D and the gaming community in general. He was far from perfect, but still a cool guy. Whereas Lorraine was an insidious viper.
 


Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
I know Gygax had his poor decision moments a got periodically burned out, but he always loved D&D and the gaming community in general. He was far from perfect, but still a cool guy. Whereas Lorraine was an insidious viper.
Which explains why every TSR employee interviewed all said they preferred working for Lorraine than Gary...

Seriously, stop digging your hole. And get out of whatever echo chamber you've been hanging out in. You are factually incorrect. I gave you a list of names you really need to follow up on.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Those who homebrew usually don't care about selling their creations. There's plenty of proof of that all over the internet. WOTC using OGL as an excuse was weak at best.
You missed the point. Because of the OGL (which WotC gave us), they don't need to keep putting out new product for 40 year old games. We get new material every day for those old versions because we have the OGL. you say they forsake us older gamers, but they literally gave us the tool to have more current old school products than we'd ever have if they kept it all to themselves.
 


Which explains why every TSR employee interviewed all said they preferred working for Lorraine than Gary...

Seriously, stop digging your hole. And get out of whatever echo chamber you've been hanging out in. You are factually incorrect. I gave you a list of names you really need to follow up on.
Now I know you're full of crap. Simping for Lorraine? Really? Lorraine was pretty much hated by most of her employees. When she was in charge, they had nothing but complaints about her. It wasn't until much later that they diplomatically tried to sever ties with her and kiss her gigantic, royal behind.
 

You missed the point. Because of the OGL (which WotC gave us), they don't need to keep putting out new product for 40 year old games. We get new material every day for those old versions because we have the OGL. you say they forsake us older gamers, but they literally gave us the tool to have more current old school products than we'd ever have if they kept it all to themselves.
WOTC tried repeatedly to revoke the OGL.
 

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