TSR TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are). The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time...

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are).

The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time of writing).

The action TSR seeks is a "Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership" which is a court declaration about the status of something in dispute.

TSR has launched a campaign to stop Wizards of the Coast

Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.


The new TSR suffered widespread pushback when it launched, which they blamed on WotC, claiming that they were under a "coordinated assault across various channels being mounted.... by [WotC]" The company announced itself earlier this year, having acquired the TSR trademark after the previous holder accidentally let it lapse. It was run by Ernie Gygax, Justin LaNasa, and Stephen Dinehart. After several weeks of controversy, the company split into two -- Wonderfilled (Stephen Dinehart), and TSR (Ernie Gygax and Justin LaNasa).


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The page also indicates an intention to "fight to have WotC's legacy product disclaimer removed" from older products (that's the disclaimer on the older books available on DMs Guild which indicates that those books are products of their time) by claiming that the disclaimer portrays the creators of those older products as "as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products".


TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership . TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".


TSR3's Justin LaNasa spoke about the campaign in a YouTube video.


 

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darjr

I crit!
Yes. Why are you repeating what I've already posted as if you are contradicting me?

If you read the TSR3 pleading, you will see at paragraph 16 they assert that WotC has not been trading using the marks; at para 17 points out that WotC is relying on the fact that it has licensed its marks to another entity (DriveThru, presumably); and then at 18 disputes that any such licence agreement exists.
17.

What kind of license would it take to let DriveThru sell WotC content, via pod or pdf? Even just simple word would do, no? I'd consider that a bad way to do business, but it would be enough, yes? As long as both parties are in agreement?

WotC says they sell through DriveThru, DriveThru is selling their stuff, and not disputing that they are doing it on WotC's behalf. Why is any other kind of proof necessary?
 

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Possibly. But it OBS says that small publishers retain their rights to the IP, I very much doubt that they'd get the IP from WotC in some sort of other agreement. That would seem very backwards to me. If anything, I'd think WoTC would ask for extra IP protections, not less. After all, WoTC has all the cards. OBS stands to make a ton of money on WoTC products just on a base % agreement. I can't see them jeopardizing that to ask for WotC's IP
Yes, absolutely. I agree that it is likely WotCs agreement is more protective of WotC. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I feel like it would be tremendously helpful to have an "IAAL" badge in threads like this.

There is no such thing as "a Lawyer". There's copyright lawyers. They aren't the same as trademark lawyers. And they aren't the same as criminal trial lawyers. Being one type of lawyer may mean that, at best, you have a passing familiarity with other areas of the law, but are not an expert.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
There is no such thing as "a Lawyer". There's copyright lawyers. They aren't the same as trademark lawyers. And they aren't the same as criminal trial lawyers. Being one type of lawyer may mean that, at best, you have a passing familiarity with other areas of the law, but are not an expert.
I was a helicopter mechanic. But I wouldn't be much help fixing your Ferrari. I mean, I know how to turn a wrench, and know what tools are what, but I don't have a clue how to set timing or do diagnostics on a car nowadays.
 

Echohawk

Shirokinukatsukami fan
There is no such thing as "a Lawyer". There's copyright lawyers. They aren't the same as trademark lawyers. And they aren't the same as criminal trial lawyers. Being one type of lawyer may mean that, at best, you have a passing familiarity with other areas of the law, but are not an expert.
Plus, a copyright lawyer based in Washington state has a completely different set of skills and knowledge to a copyright lawyer based in Indonesia. Intellectual property laws vary significantly from one jurisprudence to another.
 

RealAlHazred

Frumious Flumph (Your Grace/Your Eminence)
Plus, a copyright lawyer based in Washington state has a completely different set of skills and knowledge to a copyright lawyer based in Indonesia. Intellectual property laws vary significantly from one jurisprudence to another.
Well, I'm not a lawyer by training or vocation, but I 100%ed the Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney video game, and feel qualified to say what I think...
 


darjr

I crit!
Venger is going to be at the TSR CON CON?! The idiot who "cursed" rpg.net?

I thought I had a good reason to avoid the place before!

 

Sacrosanct

Legend
It’s all fun and games to mock them for putting out a flyer highlighting how they won’t check vaccination and won’t require masks for their convention, but they are doing it the same weekend as GaryCon, which I will be at. And I’m sure there will be people who attend both.

Get Covid at tsrcon and bring it to GaryCon. 😡
 

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