Tumble at 1/2 speed - why?

[Greenstone]

Kids say the darndest things....

My current group of kids includes an 8-year-old playing a rogue.... who asked an interesting question at this weekend's session...

Why, when he wants to tumble past an opponent (usually in attempt at a flanking sneak attack), does he have to move at 1/2 speed?

"Surely a tumble is a fast kind of move?", he said... and then promptly demonstrated on my lounge floor just what he thought his tumble would look like... and flank-attacked my daughter (who was standing in to act the part of the villain they were fighting)!

I have to say I was left a bit stumped and speechless... and the last thing I want to say to a keen new role-player is "That's just the way the rule works..."

Anyone have any suggestions/ideas?

For the record, the 8-year-old is a power-gamer in the making... DEX maxed out, Improved Initiative, Two-weapon fighting and weapon finesse feats already taken, and knows about PHBII's Telling Blow .... if I ever give him a ring of Invisibility, my monsters are doomed.

 

[ericpat]

Distance, Not Speed.

The way I would describe it to them is that it isn't your "speed" that is affected by tumbling, but the maximum distance you can move within the turn.

Another way to describe it is that each 5' square uses 10' of movement while tumbling. So you move within each 5' square very rapidly. As if you're using up 10' of movement while only traversing 5' - Akin to running "serpentine" instead of a straight line.

 

[darthkilmor]

Kids say the darndest things....

My current group of kids includes an 8-year-old playing a rogue.... who asked an interesting question at this weekend's session...

Why, when he wants to tumble past an opponent (usually in attempt at a flanking sneak attack), does he have to move at 1/2 speed?

"Surely a tumble is a fast kind of move?", he said... and then promptly demonstrated on my lounge floor just what he thought his tumble would look like... and flank-attacked my daughter (who was standing in to act the part of the villain they were fighting)!

I have to say I was left a bit stumped and speechless... and the last thing I want to say to a keen new role-player is "That's just the way the rule works..."

Anyone have any suggestions/ideas?

Because you have to concentrate on not getting hit, so you end up moving a little slower in the time alloted? Kind of like say, Indiana Jones trying to tumble underneath some trap, he might have to wait a second before he can roll. The rogue might be waiting for the opponent to finish swinging his weapon before tumbling. Its a rules abstraction, DnD is not the best combat simulator.

 

[mvincent]

Anyone have any suggestions/ideas?

Covering ground while cartwheeling, rolling, flipping etc. it typically slower than covering it with short, upright sprints. Also, an 8-year old can often flip (and even fall) better than an adult (due to height and weight).

Still, you only really have to move at 1/2 speed in threatened areas. Plus, someone with a high tumble skill doesn't have to move at 1/2 speed.

Just tell him that in real life he has a naturally high tumble skill, but adult adventurers need more training to get that good

 

[s-dub]

I would imagine becuase tumbling is a sub-standard form of movement in terms of sheer speed. If you had a really good running start and were only focusing on speed you could probably do a good 6 seconds worth of tumbling without slowing down much.

If you were starting from rest even half speed of normal is pretty generous.

If you were starting from rest and trying to avoid the ogre with the greataxe....

 

[Artoomis]

All good advice, but the simplest "show me" sort of thing would be to walk next to this 8-year old while he is tumbling. Go, say, 30 feet. Who gets there first?

Unless you intentially walk slow, you (or anyone else) willl be first.

For a very short move, sure, the tumble might really be faster as you can sort of dive, tuck and roll to cover a really short distance quickly, ending on your feet - but not more than a few feat. After that, walking is faster.

Also, even better, have this 8-year old tumble while wearing equiment (a full backpack will do nicely) and holding something in his hands.

 

[VanRichten]

Measure out 30 feet. Put his backpack on him with a full set of books. Give him two sticks about 1 to 2 pounds each. Have him run the 30 feet and use a stop watch. Make sure he is wearing jeans, and a long sleeve shirt, also throw in a hat. Then have him tumble the 30 feet while you and his sister is trying to stop him from doing it. I bet you will find he can run the 30 feet faster than he can tumble it.

Then explain to him a combat round is only 6 seconds long. You have 2 actions. 1 move (3 seconds) 1 attack (3 seconds). I doubt he will make the full 30 feet in 3 seconds with all that on him.

 

[frankthedm]

Yea, it seems folks forget "Normal movement" is actually a bun hustling jogging pace.

Also...

Accelerated Tumbling
You try to tumble past or through enemies more quickly than normal. By accepting a -10 penalty on your Tumble checks, you can move at your full speed instead of one-half your speed.

 

[phindar]

This question actually came up last week. My answer was, "You ever see someone running a 100-yard dash cartwheel the last 20 feet?"

 

[Greenstone]

Thanks everyone - all good advice... I particularly like vanRichten's suggestion...

Especially as I know the kid (who I forgot to mention is my son) will probably spend all Sauturday trying to cover the distance in 6 seconds... and will get some great exercise without realising it!