Tumble charge?

[Petrosian]

You cannot be serious, can you?

you are presneting this as a claer rule?

Ok, if you are correct and since it says special and not normal, then you cannot tumble during a charge...

Can you also not tumble when moving prior to using a spell like ability, because it says "usually"?

There is no "normal" entry anywhere on that chart.

So where do you CLEARLY get what movement options mean normal for tumbling and not normal for tumbling other than "the ones i feel like it ough to be"?

That chart's movement list seems to have been intended to define the amount of movement and some of its qualities... not to be a definitive categorization of the nature "normal" or not for things such as tumble.

"usually" is not a "sort of movement"
"yes" is not a sort of movement.

Where do you get that "special" is any different, that special alone in that chart was intended to define charging movement's "sort" for tumbling purposes?

I repeat... there is no clear rule.

If your house rule works for you, thats cool.

I offer Table 8-1, Fundamental Actions in Combat.

Tumbling is part of "normal" movement. What sort of movement does a Charge allow?

Table 8-1 says "Special".

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ok, if you are correct and since it says special and not normal, then you cannot tumble during a charge...

Can you also not tumble when moving prior to using a spell like ability, because it says "usually"?

In situations where a spell-like ability allows a move, there are no special restrictions on that move.

From the SRD section on the charge:

The combatant must move before attacking, not after.

Normal movement carries no such restriction.

The combatant must move at least 10 feet and may move up to double base speed.

There is no minimum distance set for normal movement.

All movement must be in a straight line, with no backing up allowed.

Normal movement carries no such restriction.

The charge stops as soon as the combatant threatens the target. A combatant can't run past the target and attack from another direction.

Normal movement stops when and where the character chooses, within his physical limitations.

There are good reasons the movement portion of a charge is qualified as "special"...

-Hyp.

 

[SheepLord]

I use the description from the Tumble skill handling this. They are limited to 20ft of tumbling during whatever portion of their movement. You can tumble while swiming, climbing, flying, and walking. I say you can do it for charging too. For climbing I require a climb check of what ever DC to not fall while tumbling. For charge I was using a -2 circumstance bonus to tumble similar to the -2 to AC you have for charging.

This particular maneuver comes up so rarely, I can see why the rule books didn't have a set plan just for it, as with many other -hardly ever- items people seem to think they left out. Mostly when folks tumble in my campaign, they aren't moving in a straight line, but it does happen.

Do you folks allow people to charge while swiming, flying, jumping, or climbing? (with climbing it is hard to usually justify it, since that is not really a straight line in many cases)

 

[Petrosian]

There are good reasons the movement portion of a charge is qualified as "special"...

-Hyp.

and interestingly, each of these was clearly specified and detailed in the rules. You are dead spot on that by the rules each of these clearly defined restrictions is stated for charge... but for all that, there was no such restriction about "and you cannot tumble" so detailed.

Every case where a specific and detailed restriction on charged movement is listed only highlights the fact that no such restriction prohibiting tumbling was given. The more detail and precision they spent in defining clearly each of these restriction goes AGAINST the notion that they also meant for there to be a "nod nod wink wink" hidden restrciction for tumble-charge.

Now, as stated before, a house rule to define tumble-charge as illegal is within GM purview.

Me, i prefer making it hard, even extremely hartd, so that we have even more of a chance for high skill levels to show themselves as worth the expense. So my house rule is a high penalty to the tumble-charge.

YMMV and clearly does.

 

[Metallian]

What's the current consensus on doing a tumble as part of a charge (to close in on a creature with reach for example)?

The Drunken Master PrC has a class ability (Stagger) that allows the character to charge:

- Without moving strictly in a straight line

- With a Tumble check to avoid the AoA

So I imagine that you can't do the latter under normal circumstances...otherwise they wouldn't have specifically mentioned it under the Stagger ability description, right? That's my best guess, anyway.

The Metallian

 

[Pielorinho]

I offer as another example Darryl Hannah in Blade Runner. Tumble charge, baby!

We use variant tumble rules (DC 10+opponent's melee attack to tumble through threatened areas, DC 20+opponent's melee attack to tumble through opponent's space), making tumbling more difficult. It's still a great skill.

That said, I allow this maneuver for a couple of reasons:
1) It's not unbalanced, I think.
2) The rules are unlcear, but they subtly point toward allowingi t in my interpretation.
3) Most importantly, it's freakin cool. I want combat to be cinematic, and this maneuver hleps players describe their actions dramatically. Anything that helps in that respect, I allow.

Daniel

 

[Artoomis]

How about this as a way to bring both sides of this debate together:

Allow a tumble as part of a charge, but the last 10' must be tumble-free.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Tumble charge?

So I imagine that you can't do the latter under normal circumstances...otherwise they wouldn't have specifically mentioned it under the Stagger ability description, right?

Someone give that man a chocolate fish!

-Hyp.

 

[Gaiden]

The Drunken Master ability as well as the Theif Acrobat should clear up this question. Both give benefits to characters charging while tumbling - the Drunken Master being able to move outside of a straight line and the acrobat gaining sneak attack. Logically, one must have the ability to tumble during a charge (any part of the charge) in order to gain additional benefits from tumbling during a charge.

But the more telling story is the lack of prohibition under the charge description. One can charge with any sort of movement. The restrictions merely dictate at least 10' of movement and movement in a straight line. Nothing preventing tumbling. No ban on tumbling.

End of story.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Drunken Master ability as well as the Theif Acrobat should clear up this question. Both give benefits to characters charging while tumbling

No, the Drunken Master ability gives two benefits - the ability to move outside a straight line, and the ability to Tumble to avoid AoOs while charging.

Not having my books with me, I can't look up Thief Acrobat - but I read Drunken Master before leaving for work.

-Hyp.