Turn Undead - what do you do?

I wish there was a simpler to adjudicate variant rule for rebuking undead that would reward the cleric PC in my game that took Extra Turning, Improved Turning, and Quicken Turning. As it is the turning mechanic brings the game to a halt every time as we reference the cheat sheet I created.

Morrow
 

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There's the UA variant where the cleric has to actively concentrate in order to keep the undead paralyzed. And then there's the Planar Banishment option, which is a great option for the orc paladins that inhabit the Demon Wastes, in Eberron.
 

This should probably be in the house rules forum, but whatever...

Here's the variant I came up with awhile back, and have tweaked a bit since. It's based on CR, not HD; later editions included turn resistance based on HD after I crunched some numbers and saw that it would work out better (and you don't have to worry about which monsters get it or not). As you can see from the chart, also, there is no upper limit to the roll - there is a chance, however slight, that the low-level cleric can turn the uber-lich.

Times Per Day: You may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. You can increase this number by taking the Extra Turning feat.

Turning Check: First, roll a turning check to see how powerful an undead you can turn. This is a Charisma check (1d20 + your Charisma modifier + bonuses). On a given turning attempt, you can turn no undead creature whose CR exceeds the result on this table.

There is no upper limit to the CR of undead that a cleric can turn – the table just goes to level+4 – but if the cleric has enough bonuses (turning feats, class/domain abilities, and/or circumstance bonuses), there is no reason why he shouldn't be able to turn something 6 or even 8 levels higher than he is with an exceptionally high roll. We instituted this rule because circumstances like this are extremely rare, and should work toward the player's benefit – if he has gained enough abilities to affect very high-level undead, he should reap the rewards. If your level is 5 higher than the target's, the undead is automatically turned, but it doesn't count against the number you can turn with that attempt. Likewise, if your level is twice or more the undead's CR, it is automatically destroyed, and this does not count against the number.

Turning Damage: Next, roll turning damage. This is 2d6+Cha in number of undead, not HD of undead. Undead are affected from closest to furthest; lower-CR undead are always affected first.

Area of Effect: Turning can take one of two forms: either the cleric can turn undead in a 60-foot cone emanating from his front, or he can unleash a burst of positive energy that affects all undead in a 30-foot radius. Either way, he cannot affect more than 2d6+Cha in undead. You don't need line of effect to a given target, but you do need line of sight (he must be able to see the undead he is turning so as to put the fear of his god into them). Note that if the cleric uses the area burst instead of the cone, he must have line of effect to the undead, but does not need line of sight (since some undead would be behind him).

Effect and Duration of Turning: Turned undead flee by the best and fastest means available to them. They flee for 10 rounds (1 minute). If they cannot flee, they cower (giving any attack rolls against them a +2 bonus). If you approach within 10 feet of them, however, they overcome being turned and act normally. (You can stand within 10 feet without breaking the turning effect—you just can’t approach them.) You can attack them with ranged attacks (from at least 10 feet away), and others can attack them in any fashion, without breaking the turning effect.

Destroying Undead: If your level is 6 or more higher than the undead's CR, you destroy any undead that you would normally turn.

Turn Resistance: Under this system, turn resistance works slightly differently. All undead get turn resistance equal to 1/3 HD (round down), in addition to any turn resistance they have normally (i.e., TR gained from a template). Turn Resistance is added to the CR to determine the CR as far as what the cleric can affect.

Table 1-1: Turning Undead
Code:
Turning Check Result	Most Powerful Undead Affected (Maximum CR)
0 or lower         Cleric’s level – 4
1–3                 Cleric’s level – 3
4–6                 Cleric’s level – 2
7–9                 Cleric’s level – 1
10–12               Cleric’s level
13–15               Cleric’s level + 1
16–18               Cleric’s level + 2
19–21               Cleric’s level + 3
22-24               Cleric’s level + 4
Etc.

An Example of Turning

Herne the 8th-level cleric is facing a four zombies (CR 1/2, TR +0), pair of wights (CR 4, TR +1), and an 8th-level vampire fighter (CR 10, TR +6). He rolls a 12 on his turning check, which means he can turn anything up to CR 8 – enough to turn the zombies and both wights, but not enough for the vampire. He then rolls turning damage – a 5. Since they are all around him, he chooses to use the 30-foot-radius burst, rather than the cone. Two of the zombies are only 5 feet away, so they are the first ones affected. Another zombie and a wight are 10 feet away, and the last zombie and wight are 5 feet beyond them. The vampire is only 10 feet away, but since Herne didn't turn it, it doesn't factor into things.

All four zombies, since they are 7 levels below Herne, are automatically destroyed, and both wights are turned, but the vampire is unaffected.
 
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I prefer the Complete Divine variant as well, but I honestly can't remember the last time anyone has attempted to turn undead in either the campaign I DM or the one I play in. Turn undead attempts get used all the time, for powering Divine feats and other channeling uses.

Honestly, I'd like to see turn undead be replaced by a more generic "channeling" ability, and simply make turning undead a use of channeling or a Divine feat itself. Then, they could make it into a feat tree allowing greater turning and planar turning, etc., down the line.
 

Honestly, I'd like to see turn undead be replaced by a more generic "channeling" ability, and simply make turning undead a use of channeling or a Divine feat itself. Then, they could make it into a feat tree allowing greater turning and planar turning, etc., down the line.

With the variant I posted above (and I hope I don't sound like I'm tooting my horn here) you can use it for any creature - they all gain "TR" and are affected by CR. You could even assign additional bonuses for creature types other than undead. So, for instance, the DM rules that all fiends (for Planar Turning) have a flat +2 TR on top of their normal TR. This would also work for domains that allow turning of creatures besides undead - the Moon domain (FRCS), or the elemental/Plant domains from the PHB.

Greater Turning, huh? Sounds cool...

Greater Turning [General]

You can channel more power to turn or rebuke undead.

Prerequisites: Cha 15+, ability to turn/rebuke undead, Empower Turning*.

Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to the roll when making a turning check.

I would change Empower Turning to be more like the metamagic feat - you gain +50% to the number of HD turned.

+4 doesn't sound like much, but it's actually pretty big - that's another level of undead, effectively, that you have a chance to turn, not to mention that, barring extenuating circumstances (i.e., a sink of evil), you can't roll lower than level-2.
 

The extra roll with its own chart to see if there is a little modifier (turning check) bugs me. I eliminate that by saying it is always take 10 so it is one less roll to look up on a chart.
 

Turn undead should be like just about every other special ability: A save vs. a set DC. Something like a Will save vs. 10+1/2 cleric levels+wisdom bonus, or flee.

Anything more complex than that, in my opinion, is a waste of time and space. We don't need turning to have a different mechanic than any other special ability.
 
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Here is a variant idea to Turning Undead that I have been kicking arond in my head for a bit. It eliminates the Turn Undead table completly.

Step 1: the PC making the turn attempt rolls:
1d20 + Turn Level + Cha Mod + Misc Mods = Turn DC.
(Turn Level = the total PC's Level for Classes and PrC with the ability to turn undead)
(Misc Mods = any feats, special abilities or magic that affect the PC's turn level)

Step 2: Roll 2d6 + Turn Level + your Charisma modifier to see how many undead w/in a 60' burst of the PC are affected.

Step 3: The undead in question must make a Will Save + HD + any misc mods. Equal to or greater than the Turn DC. If the undead makes the save they are not turned. If the Undead fail the save by 1/2 then the undead is destroyed.

The same rules apply for PC's attempting to Rebuke or Command Undead.

Effect and Duration of Turning
Turned undead flee from you by the best and fastest means available to them. They flee for 10 rounds (1 minute). If they cannot flee, they cower (giving any attack rolls against them a +2 bonus). If you approach within 10 feet of them, however, they overcome being turned and act normally. (You can stand within 10 feet without breaking the turning effect—you just can’t approach them.) You can attack them with ranged attacks (from at least 10 feet away), and others can attack them in any fashion, without breaking the turning effect.

Dispelling Turning
An evil cleric may channel negative energy to dispel a good cleric’s turning effect. The evil cleric makes a turning check as if attempting to rebuke the undead. If the turning check result is equal to or greater than the turning check result that the good cleric scored when turning the undead, then the undead are no longer turned. The evil cleric rolls turning damage of 2d6 + cleric level + Charisma modifier to see how many Hit Dice worth of undead he can affect in this way (as if he were rebuking them).

Bolstering Undead
An evil cleric may also bolster undead creatures against turning in advance. He makes a turning check as if attempting to rebuke the undead, but the Hit Dice result becomes the undead creatures’ effective Hit Dice as far as turning is concerned (provided the result is higher than the creatures’ actual Hit Dice). The bolstering lasts 10 rounds. An evil undead cleric can bolster himself in this manner.

(Sections cut, pasted and modified from the SRD)

IMHO this looks balanced. It takes in to account every feat related to turn undead that I can think of. And is very quick and easy to resolve. NO CHART.
 

MerricB said:
What do you think of Turn Undead?
We use it as written, but it seems too easy. It doesn't come up all that often, though, so we don't really have a problem with it (as our campaigns don't have more undead than any other monster type).

We don't use Divine Feats, though, as I'm not interested in giving clerics that option (as I'm one of those "clerics are too powerful" believers...).
 
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