D&D 5E Turning Perception into a Saving throw?

[Quickleaf]

Would you ever play in a 5e game where Perception is no longer a skill that you actively use, but instead it is a Saving Throw vs. hidden threats that helps you either (a) avoid being surprised during an ambush, or (b) notice a trap going off at the last minute to allow you a reaction before it catches you?

The idea being that the GM would just share details like "this torch sconce appears to be canted at an unusual angle compared to the others" or "there are slight scratches in an arc at the base of the brick wall" without ever conferring with Passive Perception nor asking for a Perception check. Would that be an enjoyable style for you to play 5e? Would you feel like something was missing? Are there other "domino effect" rules you'd need to see before deciding?

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I'm heavily house-ruling my next D&D game, putting together my house rules document at last (put this off for years), and I've just never liked the way "rolling to notice secret doors" / "can I make a Perception check" / traps in general play at the table when run RAW. I've always experienced a disconnect in that moment between the flow of the game and what the rules tell me.

 

[darjr]

Turn all skills into a saving throw.

RP everything, and only if they fail or they dint want to, roll.

 

[iserith]

I already don't like saving throws in general, and I have a visceral reaction to whenever a DM asks me to make an ability check without me first stating an action, so I wouldn't really care for this sort of thing. There are a lot of DMs where the PCs are doing stuff and, because the DM feels like they have to gate basic information about the environment behind a check, say something like "Give me... uhhhh... Perception check." Then everyone rolls it and, even when everyone botches the roll, the information is still given. Argh! What a waste of time.

Passive Perception works fine in my view, if it's even needed. There's literally nothing stopping the DM from just describing things like your examples as a form of telegraphing which prompts the players to explore further (if they wish). That subsequent exploration may then call for a relevant ability check.

There's also nothing in the game that supports players asking to make ability checks. Players describe what they want to do. The check is called for by the DM, if one is needed at all. It's not very smart play on the part of a player to ask for one in my view.

 

[Charlaquin]

In general I like the idea, but to clarify: if there’s like a hidden trap, the DM would describe any visible telegraphs automatically, and characters who still accidentally trigger the trap get a perception saving throw to avoid it? Is that correct?

 

[dave2008]

It seems like an interesting idea. In your examples, when you have them roll a perception saving throw?

 

[dave2008]

In general I like the idea, but to clarify: if there’s like a hidden trap, the DM would describe any visible telegraphs automatically, and characters who still accidentally trigger the trap get a perception saving throw to avoid it? Is that correct?

That is my question as well. I'm not sure when to call for the save.

 

[HomegrownHydra]

How is this better than having the DM roll against the PC's passive perception?

 

[CommodoreKong]

That's sort of how Pathfinder 2e works with traps, when you have a character that's searching while exploring the GM rolls a secret perception check with that character vs the stealth dc of the trap to see if it's noticed by the character or not. It's not exactly a saving throw it's a check but pretty close to what you're describing.

Hazards - Rules - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

Dungeons are rife with devious traps meant to protect the treasures within. These range from mechanical devices that shoot darts or drop heavy blocks to magic runes that explode into bursts of flame. In addition to traps, adventurers may stumble into other types of hazards, including naturally...

2e.aonprd.com

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

How is this better than having the DM roll against the PC's passive perception?

Because the player gets to make the roll?

 

[mamba]

Not sure I understand this… when the DM says "this torch sconce appears to be canted at an unusual angle compared to the others" isn’t that basically a successful perception check already?

Of course I investigate this now, if there were nothing to find, it would not have been pointed out.

To me a successful perception check is not ‘you notice that the torch opens a secret door if you turn it clockwise’, it is what you described