Any use limited abilities that can be swapped to something else, yeah. It used to be in its own silo, which IMO makes sense if it's something inherent to the cleric's faith. I didn't like the "use turn attempt to X" feats in 3e either. Maybe it should even be an At-Will.
Turning Undead...design philosophy
- Thread starter satori01
- Start date
Any use limited abilities that can be swapped to something else, yeah. It used to be in its own silo, which IMO makes sense if it's something inherent to the cleric's faith. I didn't like the "use turn attempt to X" feats in 3e either. Maybe it should even be an At-Will.
Mercule
Adventurer
In this case, it's the specifics of the way it's done. As I indicated, I'm fine with turning or other spell-like abilities. I'm fine with at-wills and/or reserve feats for casters. The "channel positive energy" ability has always struck me as a lousy implementation that clearly related the designers didn't actually have any theme or goal in mind, other than a catch-all for "I've got powerz". I just want it cleaned up and put in straight lines.
Mattachine
Adventurer
There was a time when I loved all the subsystems, all the arcane little talbes--heck, back when I was in high school, I had the turning table essentially memorized.
That time, for me, is long since past.
Have simple mechanics that match the rest of the rules, whatever they may be.
That time, for me, is long since past.
Have simple mechanics that match the rest of the rules, whatever they may be.
I am not a fan of the "make it another spell" school of thought.
Classifying it as a spell, defacto takes it out of the miraculous and more into the 'mundane' magical realm.
I do not mind class features being weaker than say spells, feats, etc...but at least I would expect them to be a bit more flavorful,
(class features should first off enhance the flavor of class, and then add practical benefits IMHO).....4e Wizard Cantrips I thought were well done in this respect...logical powers that can be used at will, that did give a useful and not to overpowered effect that often times could be used cleverly for greater effect.
No one has also mentioned Rebuke Undead, opposed will save for stun and dmg is a pretty simple mechanic to balance, how would people try to balance the High end rebuke effect of controlling undead?
Classifying it as a spell, defacto takes it out of the miraculous and more into the 'mundane' magical realm.
I do not mind class features being weaker than say spells, feats, etc...but at least I would expect them to be a bit more flavorful,
(class features should first off enhance the flavor of class, and then add practical benefits IMHO).....4e Wizard Cantrips I thought were well done in this respect...logical powers that can be used at will, that did give a useful and not to overpowered effect that often times could be used cleverly for greater effect.
No one has also mentioned Rebuke Undead, opposed will save for stun and dmg is a pretty simple mechanic to balance, how would people try to balance the High end rebuke effect of controlling undead?
Incenjucar
Legend
Clerics are spellcasters just as much as a wizard. There is no functional difference between a cleric and a wizard's spellcasting except that the cleric often has a bigger spellbook.
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I'm not a fan of Turning being just another attack, or causing hp damage.
To me it's much more flavorful if it's an ability that causes a fear-like affect in undead - causing them to flee and avoid the cleric.
I'd like there to be three levels of effect on undead in the area of effect.
1) Flee in panic.
2) Be too afraid to get close to the cleric.
3) Be unaffected.
The problem I haven't worked out is how to control how often the Cleric can do it, and for how long. I'm not entirely certain that there is a problem with letting them do it as often and for as long as they wish, as long as they can only roll against a given monster once.
Some people might complain about "cheese" of ranged attacks against undead that can't get close - but if I were the DM I'd say that was entirely appropriate. Such things happen - you can always adjust XP accordingly.
To me it's much more flavorful if it's an ability that causes a fear-like affect in undead - causing them to flee and avoid the cleric.
I'd like there to be three levels of effect on undead in the area of effect.
1) Flee in panic.
2) Be too afraid to get close to the cleric.
3) Be unaffected.
The problem I haven't worked out is how to control how often the Cleric can do it, and for how long. I'm not entirely certain that there is a problem with letting them do it as often and for as long as they wish, as long as they can only roll against a given monster once.
Some people might complain about "cheese" of ranged attacks against undead that can't get close - but if I were the DM I'd say that was entirely appropriate. Such things happen - you can always adjust XP accordingly.
LostSoul
Adventurer
Something like this?
Holy Symbols: The folklore of holy symbols derives from the traditional opposition of heroes wielding divine power against vampires. A strong-willed individual displaying a good deity's symbol might be able to repel a vampire. Using a holy symbol in this way is a standard action and grants a Charisma attack or Wisdom attack (plus the holy symbol's enhancement bonus) against the vampire's Will. The attack deals no damage but renders the undead unable to make attacks against the holy symbol's wielder until the end of its next turn. During that time, the holy symbol forces the vampire to remain a number of squares away from the wielder equal to the vampire's reach + 1.
Open Grave, page 188
Open Grave, page 188
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
What's wrong with tables? I don't have the turn-undead table memorized and have to check it every time someone rolls...which takes me maybe 5 seconds if that. Big deal.
Why does it need to do damage at all? (this is one of various attack forms that should not be shoehorned into simply doing h.p. damage)AnonGemini said:
As a DM you shouldn't have to. You run what you run, they play what they play, and sometimes they'll have an unusual advantage and sometimes they won't. Trying to fine-tune encounters and adventures to suit the exact make-up of the party at a given time is a short road to insanity.Sirot said:
Lan-"turn, baby, turn"-efan
