Two Dozen Nasty DM Tricks

Again, this is entirely contextual.

If I'm forced to tap every tile in a dungeon floor with a 10' pole and hold every door open with an iron spike while adventuring in the mines and city that a tribe of Gnolls have carved into the side of a volcano, then perhaps I'm going to eventually start wondering at the maturity of the DM's design skills.

If I'm not forced to tap every tile in a dungeon floor with a 10' pole and hold open every door with an iron spike while plundering the infamous tomb of the sinister Yuan-Ti Necromancer King of its reputedly legendary treasure, then I'm going to eventually start wondering at the maturity of the DM's design skills.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Not even the most powerful pharaohs of ancient Egypt trapped every square inch of their tombs. Any dungeon so thick with traps as to require that every indivdiual tile be prodded by the PCs in order to avoid injury is not only boring for me as a player but, also, as a DM.

I think that this is what the poster I was responding to meant when he suggested that this style of play is about as far from wondrous as one can get — it's simple-minded repetition that requires little forethought or effort while suspending any sense of adventure to be had otherwise.

I suppose that prodding stones with sticks for hours on end must be fun for some people but it's not fun for me. As somebody else mentioned, that does not seem to be the best use of the limited amount of time that I can dedicate to RPGs.
 
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Not even the most powerful pharaohs of ancient Egypt trapped every square inch of their tombs. Trap overkill is trap overkill and illogical traps are illogical traps, AFAIAC. If a DM can't be bothered to design traps that make sense, then I can't be bothered to play in his games.

This has more to do with overall milieu and adherence to "realism" than anything else, though. If you take the "D&D world" out of core rules and assume an "adventurer culture" as described for PCs in the core books, nasty tricks and traps do make sense and are logical.

I recently purchased The Gazeteer of the Known Realms from Goodman Games (DCC #35) and was impressed with the 0 level adventure in it as an example of "old school" adventure design. There are quite a few fiendish traps and tricks within, all of which are given context in the adventure and are placed in such a way as not to be constantly be set off by the inhabitants (kobolds in this case). In some instances, the traps are subtly marked so that the kobolds avoid them (and PCs have a chance of noticing the marks) and some are in areas where the kobolds don't venture specifically because the traps are there.

The existence of traps and tricks doesn't mean much of anything about the "maturity" or "realism" of an adventure location's design. All it suggests is the truism that some people do in fact enjoy these things in their games -- and not just "one person" at the table.
 

If you take the "D&D world" out of core rules and assume an "adventurer culture" as described for PCs in the core books, nasty tricks and traps do make sense and are logical.

Well, the pharoahs, for example, did assume an endless stream of thieves attempting to infiltrate their resting places and plunder their vast riches — but they still didn't trap every square inch of their tombs or resort to traps they could not foil (assuming that they were returned to life as planned). I edited my post to better relflect my meaning, though I wasn't quick enough ;)

I suppose that it ultimately boils down to a matter of personal taste. I guess, for me, traps that frequently use meta-game knowledge specifically to bork PCs just don't seem logical (even when I assume a culture of professional adventurers). For me, the DM who makes frequent use of such traps is like the comic book artist who frequently breaks the fourth wall.

Similarly, dungeons so thick with traps that hours on end are spent prodding stones with sticks don't seem to be very much fun, for me. I can simply think of more exciting things to do in a role-playing game. I mean, if somebody said to me, "Hey! Let's play Sticks & Stones!" I'd never sign up for that :)
 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Not even the most powerful pharaohs of ancient Egypt trapped every square inch of their tombs.

I guess so, since we are already departing ways that early.

So far as I know, no ancient culture anywhere in the world ever built trap filled tombs, and even if they did I'd be really surprised if the trap was still functional 10 years latter much less hundreds or thousands of years latter.

The minute we start talking about complex mechanical traps of any sort, we've departed deep into the realm of magic and fantasy.

Any dungeon so thick with traps as to require that every indivdiual tile be prodded by the PCs in order to avoid injury is not only boring for me as a player but, also, as a DM.

Any dungeon that has even one significant trap that isn't in a portal or protecting an obvious mcguffin is thick enough with traps to warrant either searching every space for traps or prodding ahead with a 10' pole or both. It's not that there is one in every space; it's that you don't know if there is one in every space.

How that is repititious, I'm not sure. It would be a very tedious DM indeed that forced the players to go through the rite of touch every tile, rather than simply saying, "My rogue is in the lead, checking for traps down the length of the corridor. After checking for traps, I'll back up and firmly press a 10' pole in the area I just check to make sure I didn't miss anything, and we'll continue this until we get to the end of the corridor.", or "I'll continue as before down this second corridor." But then, I've never encountered this particular tedious character.

At least, I don't ever remember prodding stones with sticks for hours on end, but I'm sure someone must have done it our you wouldn't mention it. Anyone? Anyone?
 

At least, I don't ever remember prodding stones with sticks for hours on end, but I'm sure someone must have done it our you wouldn't mention it. Anyone? Anyone?

Way, way back when I was in Junior High School, and was playing 1E adventure modules... Yes, we came awfully close to it.

It was more along the lines of you suggested -- "My rogue is in the lead, checking for traps down the length of the corridor. After checking for traps, I'll back up and firmly press a 10' pole in the area I just check to make sure I didn't miss anything, and we'll continue this until we get to the end of the corridor." -- but yes, there were times we poked everything with a 10' pole.
 

At least, I don't ever remember prodding stones with sticks for hours on end, but I'm sure someone must have done it our you wouldn't mention it. Anyone? Anyone?

Me. And many I've played with. It gets old REAL fast. Traps that make sense are fine, but those illogical and/or overly complex traps yank everyone out of the game. This happens because when these things are brought out, the characters are no longer exploring a world and fighting the bad guys. The players are trying to protect their characters from being killed by the DM.

The exploding zombies trick looks pretty good though. Also the falling apart ladder, <nitpick>but that would just be a hazard </nitpick>
 

It always amazes me that, from certain perspectives, our hobby is based on 10-15 years of badwrongfun. Indeed, it was a time where players were all dreadfully miserable, DMs were all devolved masochists, and the creativity gene was clubbed to death before it could infect the chromosome. Ah, yes, 10-15 years of gaming history that friends and acquaintances from the clubs and conventions still reminisce, laugh, and retell stories about. Stories of how we (DMs and players) had such a great time with our badwrongfun while working our characters from 1st level up to 9th or beyond. How we bought reams of paper because our characters were whimsically slaughtered by the scores. How we made that last-minute, fight-winning, party-saving die roll while never even once getting a search check, saving throw, or coin flip to spare our pen-and-paper lives... Unless the players all ganged up and beat the DM into submission with his own rulebooks. (Since geeks and nerds were vastly more muscular back then, this was a common occurrence.) It is amazing that we are still playing in this hobby, much less recruiting new victims, I mean "players", what with the mountain of misery every player must overcome before even looking up from his or her lonesome dice. Or maybe it's just sour grapes, 'cause the vast majority of stories I hear traded around about "old school" gaming at the club or cons are full of laughter and fun. Except online, where some people's version of the generalized historical record includes a sizable scratch.

Speaking of sour grapes, that leads me to think of wine and wine presses. That reminds me of a very clever trick pulled by a player in a game I ran - and something more on-topic with this thread. You can use it directly or easily modify it with other spells and implements. I have some traps and tricks inspired by it at the end (typing this from memory - my notes are at home):

The PCs had stumbled upon a very old, very powerful 1E lich's library. Not realizing that they were in way over their heads, and ignoring even the blunt clues from the DM that Great Disaster Is Imminent (or maybe overcome by greed at a huge library chock full of magical tomes, scrolls, tablets, and other choice bits of loot), they entered the library and were confronted by the bemused lich. Bemused as in, "Oh, look. Some mice made it in past my defenses. How'd they do that?" (Arrogance was one of his weak points, and could be used to manipulate him. Said so right in his description. In pencil.) Negotiations quickly broke down into a fight. Individual initiative was rolled, powers were unleashed, part of the very dusty library was set on fire, the PC's main damage-dealers succumbed to a Symbol of Stunning, and then it was the Druid's turn.

"The lich is at the other end of the library, using one of the bookcases as cover, right?"

"Right," I said, and pointed at the layout on the dry erase board.

"I cast Turn Wood from my ring of spell storing."

Play. Stopped.

"W-w-what?!?!" I stammered.

"I cast Turn Wood. It should cause all the wood in this library - including paper and books with wooden covers, especially the shelves - to move in *that* direction. How much wood is in this library?" The other players quietly offered one- and two-word expressions of amazement.

Thinking quickly, I said, "Well, it's not going to do any damage to him. You need magical weapons to hurt a lich."

"Most of the books are magical, aren't they? If they were thrown at him, wouldn't they count as magical weapons?"

I glibly replied, "Errrr..."

I tried to give my poor lich, a campaign-level BBEG, a saving throw for half damage. He made it, but the damage from so many projectiles was too high. I checked over his Contingency - no luck, it wouldn't kick in. Stoneskin (remember - 1E Unearthed Arcana): No good. I read the list of his various pacts, deals, Wishes - anything that might get him out of this mess. It was no use. He was crunched.

One of the most powerful BBEGs in the game was crushed to bony splinters by his own library, sent back to his phylactery, and his magical library was looted with relative impunity. Yes, they beat him up with his own treasure and then robbed him. "Throwing the book at him" took on a whole new meaning for us. I endured months of references to NPC villains who had serious and weighty matters pressing on them and comments about having to hit the books.

-----
The above session inspired the following in later adventures:
* The classic: Books animate and attack; the books are the treasure. If the PCs manage to subdue the books without significantly damaging them, they get to keep the treasure.

* PCs enter an armory, where all of the racks, cases, and displays are only on ONE side of the room. Stepping onto the clean side of the room upsets the carefully balanced pivot point, causes the room to flip, dumps the PCs onto the clean wall, followed by all the armor and racks of weapons. If your PCs like to split up into search teams (like mine did), you may have a barbarian riding a weapons case down onto the wizard - it had special meaning back in the days of 1E Unearthed Arcana. Alternatively, replace all the weapons with stacked bricks or (my personal favorite) sand. The stacked bricks were nice when the PCs came across an "unfinished" part of the dungeon, pun intended.

* PCs enter a circle-shaped room with a door on the opposite side and a single, large, round stone (or metal) sphere in the exact middled (7' or 8' in diameter - it's BIG). Stepping on one of several pressure plates in the room causes the doors to slam shut and lock. The room is actually balanced on a pivot point in the exact center, so that it will tilt in the direction of the weight once the pressure plate is tripped. The PC's weight is sufficient to start a chain reaction, where the room tilts in the PC's direction, sending the large stone sphere rolling after him or her (and triggering a Reflex save, Dex check, or other appropriate test for the PC to remain on his/her feet or be sent sliding into a wall followed by rolling doom). The room is set so that it will only ever create a 20-degree slope - probably not enough for the rolling doom to wedge itself against the wall. Quick PCs can probably keep ahead of rolling doom until their companions open the door and rescue them. Skilled PCs can probably pull themselves up the grade, towards the center, out of harm's way (but probably blocking off the exits with the room's tilt. There are also various magical ways of overcoming the harm. (In actual play, this resulted in one hapless PC running around the edge of the room, chased by a giant rolling ball. The rest of the party pried open the door and watched him run by a few times while they pondered what to do - i.e., fell out of their chairs laughing. They rescued him successfully, but the doorway was left blocked by the up-tilted room floor - the ball ended up not quite directly on the opposite side from them when it stopped rolling. One stoneshape spell later and the door was permanently unblocked.)

P.S. If the sphere is metal, you now have a use for those two rust monsters you found in the bag of holding earlier, or the trapped rust dust scabbard from the preceeding room.

* Movable cover. (I'm pretty sure this one has been mentioned before in another thread.) The orcs, bugbears, hobgoblins are hiding behind cover that has wheels on it in your standard 10' wide corridor. After their initial archery barrage, they tilt up their cover and charge the PCs, pushing their cover ahead of them. If you really feel vicious, have the front of their cover soaked with oil - so the bad guys can set it on fire before smashing into the heroes.

* Searching the library. PCs enter a library with heavy floor-to-ceiling bookcases, laden with scrolls, tomes, books, parchments, papers, and various bookends (IIRC, three of them were Figurines of Wondrous Power - the goats). The bookcases are on spring-loaded tracks in the floor and ceiling. Stepping on a pressure plate causes an entire row to slam together. (In actual play, the PCs sent summoned monsters running through the library, sprang the trap, and looted the place easily. I should have known better - it was the same group, but with different characters.)
 


The exploding zombies trick looks pretty good though.

Yeah, FWIW, I liked that, too (I'm a big fan of the exploding zombies in the old Myth strategy games and there are several ways to logically explain exploding zombies).

Celebrim said:
At least, I don't ever remember prodding stones with sticks for hours on end, but I'm sure someone must have done it our you wouldn't mention it. Anyone? Anyone?

Well, you did posit a situation where poking every single tile in a dungeon with a 10' pole was the proper approach to traps. Please don't make me quote your own example. As for the prodding of stones with sticks bit — yes, it happens, as others have attested to. Finally, FWIW, OchreJelly actually mentioned the phenomena of tapping every tile with a 10' pole before I did. So, to recap:

  • You actually cited an example where behavior that you're now suggesting doesn't exist is your preferred approach to certain types of dungeons.

  • You dared people to weigh in and bear witness to the phenomena of tapping every tile with a 10' pole, after which they chimed in to do just that.

  • This behavior that you tried to suggest I had invented was first mentioned by somebody else in this very thread.

Obviously, I was just making the whole thing up. :erm:
 
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Well, you did posit a situation where poking every single tile in a dungeon with a 10' pole was the proper approach to traps. Please don't make me quote your own example.

No, please do. Because if I'm the primary example from which you are drawing your observation, then it forces you to concede my authority on this subject.

  • You actually cited an example where behavior that you're now suggesting doesn't exist is your preferred approach to certain types of dungeons.


  • Yes. But you declared that there existed some example of the play in question which was redudant, mindless, tedious, and boring. If I'm the example of play from which the behavior 'poking every tile with a stick' is drawn, then you have no examples where the play style is redundant, mindless, tedious, and boring. For as I said, I've never found a DM that required me to tediously say, "I poke the one on the right. Now the other one on the right. Then the other one.... Ok now the one on the left..." Declaring that I intended to poke the floor with a 10' pole while advancing is no more tedious than declaring that I intend to take 20 on a search check. What it is, that taking 20 with a search check isn't, is concrete.

    [*]You dared people to weigh in and bear witness to the phenomena of tapping every tile with a 10' pole, after which they chimed in to do just that.

    Indeed, I did. Because I wanted to find out if some one had indeed played 'for hours on end' where they poked stones with sticks. Because, I wasn't one of them. If I am your example of 'poking stones with sticks' for hours on end, then you are confused about something. So far, the jury is still out. I'm sure that some few people were forced to repeatedly describe over and over again the same action, but I wasn't one of them.

    Perhaps the confusion here is the difference between 'game time' and 'play time'. Certainly there have been times where my characters have poked around stone tiles for hours on end, but in terms of play time it only took a few seconds. It might have been tedious for the character to poke around stone tiles for hours on end, just as it might have been tedious for other characters of mine to pour through newspaper clippings for hours on end, or go read books in the library for hours on end; however, for me as the player only a few seconds passed and I certainly didn't have time to get bored. Heck, as long as we are discussing 'Tomb of Horrors', it took the character hours of tedious time poking around to even uncover the entrance of the cavern, and literally days of tedious travel time to get there, but all that game time took only a few minutes at most of play time.

    I'm entirely sure that poking stone tiles with 10' poles is tedious to my character, but it was his life on the line so maybe that added some spice. But, since it never took up a significant portion of my precious time, I don't see how you can claim it was boring to me - particularly since I got to relish some of the character's fear and anxiety.

    So, let me be perfectly clear, I've never spent hours of play time 'poking stones with sticks'. I don't know what you imagine such a play session to be like, but it certainly was never, "Now, I move my pole 1' to the left and press there.... now 1' more to the left... and"

    And, as for poking stones with sticks not being the stuff of adventures, I think I can find an appropriate counter example: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbmfv_Y9WIc]YouTube - Greatest Movie Scenes - Raiders of the Lost Ark- Golden Idol[/ame]
 

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