Two hands for a spear?

[StreamOfTheSky]

There's also the Net and Trident "weapon style" feat from Complete Warrior...

EDIT: Wait, he's not big on tridents? Is it mechanical (stats), or just the appearance, "feel," etc...?

 

[Umbran]

A bit of personal experience, which may shed some light...

I sometimes do a bit of heavy-list fighting in the SCA. My major weapon is polearm (perhaps seven feet long). It is often used for thrusting. While it is certainly thicker and heftier than what you'd call a spear normally, there is no way in heck to control it for a thrust one-handed. the real spears are slimmer, but even longer - up to 12 feet! That sort of spear is not for throwing, I assure you.

The typical "shield and spear" technique, if I recall correctly, is not ever used in one-on-one combat - it is for massed troops only. You make a wall with the shields, and stick the fairly short spears out to keep the enemy back. But the real fighting is done by the guys behind, who have those 12' jobs and two free hands, and can strike from well behind the shields...

 

[hong]

My major weapon is polearm (perhaps seven feet long). It is often used for thrusting.

Mine is only six inches.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

um all this talk about "spears" is making me uncomfortable... I think i'm going to go and ah... sharpen my spear.

no seriously, I say use a trident if its not exotic, and call it a spear.

 

[Derro]

One issue with making the spear a 1H martial weapon is that it handily blows the trident out of the water. (And we wouldn't want that ) Even compared to a battleaxe, it gets the set vs charge as well as the nice range increment.

One fine option is to say that you can wield the spear as a 1H martial melee weapon, but you can't throw it with one hand. Another is to make it a 1H exotic.

Weird. I totally forgot about the trident and it's no wonder. Lower crit, lesser range, martial. The only plus vs. spear is the single handedness. Odd thing is it is the equal of most of the other weapons in its class, one-handed martial.

And why does the spear have a range increment? It's the only two-handed weapon you can throw. I can't find any rules on throwing two-handed weapons. There were some in 3.0 but I don't see them in 3.5. Do you throw a spear two-handed. I can't picture it. Unless it was like a caber or the Celtic foot-throw. That's just silly.

I think the idea is one-handed exotic is good. I glommed onto one-handed martial pretty fast cuz I been playing a lot of Conan and they just give fighter stuff away in that game. Everybody and their dog has got two-weapon fighting. But I digress...

Has anybody ever seen or done a detailed analysis of weapon characteristics and their balance? Like the base-line one-handed martial is longsword or battleaxe (1d8, 19-20/x2 or x3). It has a value we'll call 5. One for each die step of damage dealt (so d3, d4, d6, d8 = 4) plus one for expanded (19-20) or more potent (x3) critical. Likewise the light martials (short sword, hand-axe) seem to be a 4 while two-handed martials (greatsword, greataxe) are a 7.

That's just the first layer of the onion as well. Light and two-handed weapons have inherent benefits and penalties such as wieldability, hardiness, or potence beyond base damage (two-handed Str multipier vs. inability to PwrAtck with a light weapon).

And what's the deal with the greatclub? It's a 5 and they call it martial vs. the spear which is at least a 5 and more likely a 6 (set and range increment .5 each).

...so... :\

Do you guys play too much D&D too?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Do you guys play too much D&D too?

Probably

 

[jaelis]

Has anybody ever seen or done a detailed analysis of weapon characteristics and their balance?

I think this is the original. I have a modified version here .

And yes, the greatclub sucks by any measure. My personal guess is that it was originally meant to be a simple 2H weapon, but someone decided they didn't want clerics to get it.

RE throwing a spear, I figure that you really only hold it in one hand when you throw it, but you have to use your other arm for sort of a counterbalance, so it needs to be free.

 

[0bsolete]

There's also the Net and Trident "weapon style" feat from Complete Warrior...

EDIT: Wait, he's not big on tridents? Is it mechanical (stats), or just the appearance, "feel," etc...?

Its mostly the feel. His character is intending to be one who is reluctant to kill humanoids (think Cadderly from The Cleric Quintet later in the series) and to him the Trident seems like a very vicious weapon so he feels it will clash with his character.

 

[0bsolete]

A bit of personal experience, which may shed some light...

I sometimes do a bit of heavy-list fighting in the SCA. My major weapon is polearm (perhaps seven feet long). It is often used for thrusting. While it is certainly thicker and heftier than what you'd call a spear normally, there is no way in heck to control it for a thrust one-handed. the real spears are slimmer, but even longer - up to 12 feet! That sort of spear is not for throwing, I assure you.

The typical "shield and spear" technique, if I recall correctly, is not ever used in one-on-one combat - it is for massed troops only. You make a wall with the shields, and stick the fairly short spears out to keep the enemy back. But the real fighting is done by the guys behind, who have those 12' jobs and two free hands, and can strike from well behind the shields...

Actually, your thinking only the phalanx style fighting. The Greek iconic solo hero also used a shield and spear, even alone. Telemachus, Odysseus, even Achilles. Multiple mounted warriors through history have also used spears, and on the back of a horse you can't really use it two handed, though many used their hip as support. Not used for slashing, only thrusting, mostly kept at the side and thrust outward and forward more than anything. Light wooden handle with a fairly small metal tip. True, not the most graceful weapon, but I would expect it could be used by somebody with formal military training in one hand couldn't it?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Its mostly the feel. His character is intending to be one who is reluctant to kill humanoids (think Cadderly from The Cleric Quintet later in the series) and to him the Trident seems like a very vicious weapon so he feels it will clash with his character.

Heh. A 1d8/x2 weapon feels vicious, so he'd rather use the 1d8/x3 weapon that has a chance of doing real damage on a critical

-Hyp.