D&D 5E Two more Classic Settings to go

[Marandahir]

Wait. it’s still at mystara isn’t it?

No, it was republished by Arneson in collaboration with Zeitgeist Games & Goodman Games as a stand-alone setting in 2004 using 3.5e rules. And then Zeitgeist published an update of it for 4e in 2009. Mystara still acts like Blackmoor is a part of the setting, but so does Greyhawk; everywhere Blackmoor seems to hop into is left with the shadow or echo of the setting that is frozen in time as the Blackmoor that graced that setting at the time when it was there. Referenced as a location, but out of focus so as not to intrude on what Blackmoor has become.

 

[Sithlord]

No, it was republished by Arneson in collaboration with Zeitgeist Games & Goodman Games as a stand-alone setting in 2004 using 3.5e rules. And then Zeitgeist published an update of it for 4e in 2009. Mystara still acts like Blackmoor is a part of the setting, but so does Greyhawk; everywhere Blackmoor seems to hop into is left with the shadow or echo of the setting that is frozen in time as the Blackmoor that graced that setting at the time when it was there. Referenced as a location, but out of focus so as not to intrude on what Blackmoor has become.

That clears things up. Thanks

 

[Maxperson]

Perkins has gone over this at a couple point: gods Tiamat/Takhisis cannot be "killed", only inconvenienced.

Perhaps he should read the 5e rules, then. From the 5e DMG.

"Most of the Astral Sea is a vast, empty expanse. Visitors occasionally stumble upon the petrified corpse of a dead god or other chunks of rock drifting forever in the silvery void."

This has been true at least since 2e and possibly 1e. Gods can die.

 

[Marandahir]

Perhaps he should read the 5e rules, then. From the 5e DMG.

"Most of the Astral Sea is a vast, empty expanse. Visitors occasionally stumble upon the petrified corpse of a dead god or other chunks of rock drifting forever in the silvery void."

This has been true at least since 2e and possibly 1e. Gods can die.

But can mortals kill gods or can only other gods kill gods?
Or did that dead god die due to lack of worshipers?

As with the Joker's backstory and as with many of the truths we cling to, the ability of a God to be killed or not depends greatly on our own point of view - or at least DM fiat. It's multiple choice. Use what makes sense for your game, dump the rest.

 

[Maxperson]

But can mortals kill gods or can only other gods kill gods?
Or did that dead god die due to lack of worshipers?

All three. Gods have been killable by mortals(with artifacts) since 1e. They die from lack of worshippers. And other gods have killed gods.

As with the Joker's backstory and as with many of the truths we cling to, the ability of a God to be killed or not depends greatly on our own point of view - or at least DM fiat. It's multiple choice. Use what makes sense for your game, dump the rest.

Well, sure. What the DM says goes. I'm just saying that the game has had gods dying since 1e. Maybe 4e was the exception. I don't think so since some were statted out for for PCs to kill, but I don't know for certain since I didn't really play it.

Perkins is wrong when he says gods can't die. RAW contradicts him directly.

 

[Marandahir]

All three. Gods have been killable by mortals(with artifacts) since 1e. They die from lack of worshippers. And other gods have killed gods.

Well, sure. What the DM says goes. I'm just saying that the game has had gods dying since 1e. Maybe 4e was the exception. I don't think so since some were statted out for for PCs to kill, but I don't know for certain since I didn't really play it.

Perkins is wrong when he says gods can't die. RAW contradicts him directly.

Perkins and Mearls have both said that they have been reconsidering the nature of Gods behind the scenes. Some of it is the idea that the gods like Moradin were all originally mortals who ascended into godhood in this new reality; other parts of it is about whether the god you kill is the actual god or its avatar. They've gone back and forth on what those stat blocks for Tiamat, Lolth, etc actually represent. 4e did the same thing. It introduced stats for gods, but then later said that those weren't actually the Gods stats but that of their principle avatars, which are worshipped for all intents and purposes as the god.

It's like how Rand al'Thor thinks he's killed the Dark One at the end of "The Wheel of Time: Book III: The Dragon Reborn" but then we find out it was just his chief lieutenant Ashamael who had been posing as (/insanely thinking he was) the Dark One the entire series up to that point. Then we find out that the Dark One can just resurrect dead lieutenants like Ashamael and Lannfear and that the only real way to end this would be to kill the Dark One. I've never finished the series, so it's unclear to me if the Dark One was ever actually destroyed. But these are really classic tropes regarding deicide.

 

[SkidAce]

...Perkins is wrong when he says gods can't die. RAW contradicts him directly.

I think he said Tiamat can't die, not "gods cant die".

 

[Maxperson]

I think he said Tiamat can't die, not "gods cant die".

It seems odd that she would be an exception.

 

[SkidAce]

It seems odd that she would be an exception.

Not sure about Perkins, but in my campaign, her and four other "god/primordials' are the foundation of the cosmos.

All the other "gods" are like Immortals from basic, there are hundreds and they can die, fade, etc.

 

[Maxperson]

Perkins and Mearls have both said that they have been reconsidering the nature of Gods behind the scenes. Some of it is the idea that the gods like Moradin were all originally mortals who ascended into godhood in this new reality; other parts of it is about whether the god you kill is the actual god or its avatar. They've gone back and forth on what those stat blocks for Tiamat, Lolth, etc actually represent. 4e did the same thing. It introduced stats for gods, but then later said that those weren't actually the Gods stats but that of their principle avatars, which are worshipped for all intents and purposes as the god.

It's like how Rand al'Thor thinks he's killed the Dark One at the end of "The Wheel of Time: Book III: The Dragon Reborn" but then we find out it was just his chief lieutenant Ashamael who had been posing as (/insanely thinking he was) the Dark One the entire series up to that point. Then we find out that the Dark One can just resurrect dead lieutenants like Ashamael and Lannfear and that the only real way to end this would be to kill the Dark One. I've never finished the series, so it's unclear to me if the Dark One was ever actually destroyed. But these are really classic tropes regarding deicide.

I did finish it, but I don't want to spoil the series. If you'd like to know what happens between him and the Dark One, I can PM you with it.