Two nagging rules questions.

[Maudlin]

1) Since Wildshape got replaced in Masters of the Wild, it no longer limits you to forms with less or equal HD to the druid... In the Shifter presige class, the Greater Wildshape DOES still have this restriction, but it says that you can freely combine advantages if you have both.

So can a Druid gone Shifter 'greater wildshape' over his HD, while a Wizard gone Shifter can't?

2) I've always thought that Immunity to magic, such as that of a golem, worked as if it had unbeatable SR. Someone recently pointed out to me that golems are warded against supernatural effects as well, which SR doesn't do.

How then does a golem (or a wizard shapechanged into a golem) react to spells that ignore SR? (such as Dispel Magic, Scrying, or Detect Magic) Specifically, while an area Dispel would still seem to work, can you still do a targeted Dispel? If it is blanket immunity to all spells, how is the shapechange maintained?

Thanks!

 

[Pax]

On the golem issue: Immune is immune, period. It doesn't react, because there's no effect.

 

[orbitalfreak]

1) I'll check my books in a few minutes

2) There's a LOT of discussion on the Golem's magic immunity on the official boards in this thread:
Golem's Magic Immunity Once Again

 

[Maudlin]

Pax, there seems to be a contradiction, though... If a wizard shapechanges to a golem (which is even in the text as an example), which is categorically immune to a shapechange spell, the spell would end.

Also, there's no reason to assume they wouldn't be immune to the magic enhancement of a weapon... A +2 sword would then just be a sharp metal stick, no? 30/+2 DR indeed (The entry on SR specifically mentions this isn't a problem as SR only affects spells and spell-like effects). Or then again, DR is itself supernatural, so the golem isn't affected by it in the first place, so you can pound it to death with a wooden spoon...

Summat's wrong

I'll go read that thread, Orbitalfreak, thanks a lot.

 

[Pax]

Pax, there seems to be a contradiction, though... If a wizard shapechanges to a golem (which is even in the text as an example), which is categorically immune to a shapechange spell, the spell would end.

Also, there's no reason to assume they wouldn't be immune to the magic enhancement of a weapon... A +2 sword would then just be a sharp metal stick, no? 30/+2 DR indeed (The entry on SR specifically mentions this isn't a problem as SR only affects spells and spell-like effects). Or then again, DR is itself supernatural, so the golem isn't affected by it in the first place, so you can pound it to death with a wooden spoon...

Summat's wrong

I'll go read that thread, Orbitalfreak, thanks a lot.

Golems are immune to magic directed at THEM, not at weapons swung at them.

And the Golem's Magic Immunity is a Supernatural ability, correct? That would seem to preclude a PolySelf from granting that ability to the wizard ...

 

[Maudlin]

No, the Immunity is Ex. Otherwise their immunity would cancel out their immunity

And they're not immune to the weapons, but rather to the magical enchantments ON the weapon. If they're affected differently by a +2 or a +3 weapon, that's the magical enchantment making the difference, no? And they're immune to all magic not specifically listed.

I don't see it mentioned anywhere that the effect must target them to be affected by the immunity.

 

[Hejdun]

On the golem issue, I need to quote Frank from the official boards.

First off, it tells us what we can and cannot do to Golems with Magic - can we bury them with Transmute Rock to Mud? Can we put them into a Maze? Can we throw a +3 Mace of Disruption at them with Telekinesis? For that matter, do Golembane weapons even work on Golems?

I would tend to treat it as infinite spell resistance, because otherwise your answers to the questions above get really freaky.

 

[Pax]

I would tend to treat it as infinite spell resistance, because otherwise your answers to the questions above get really freaky.

That, actually, is a VERY elegant way of treatign the Golem's immunity status. Well done, sir!

 

[Saeviomagy]

Except for the fact that the golem suddenly becomes subject to supernatural abilities, can suddenly be mazed, trapped in a wall of force etc. etc.

Infinite spell resistance is neat, but it doesn't cover all the bases which the present immunity covers.

 

[Maudlin]

Right. That's the way I used to handle it, but as you say that means the Golem is subject to eg. a Dragon's breath, a Basilisk gaze and some spells like Grease and Maze, which it normally isn't.

Guess it's the only answer though. Immunity to magic seems poorly thought out. Thanks for the replies guys.

Anyone know about the wildshape thing?