D&D 4E Two-on-Two 4e Brawl

[Plane Sailing]

I think so far that Clerics & Paladins might be the most interesting to play just because their abilities seem to have the greatest variety of uses (not just about doing damage).

Hopefully when we see the PHB and get an idea of the kind of powers available for the different classes it will be easier to create all kinds of classes with a bigger variety of things to do.

(and in an actual role playing situation I'm sure the wizards at-will ghost sound and mage hand would be VERY useful).

Cheers

 

[Frostmarrow]

Did you just call me a potato?

How strange. You look like a kitten.

 

[hong]

How strange. You look like a kitten.

How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

No, wait.

 

[Li Shenron]

Thanks for the test!

From what we gatherred, we found the game fun-- but more of a skirmish miniatures game kind of way than a role-plaaying game kind of way.

Obviously you just played a few battles without an adventure around them... but I think I know what you mean: some abstract restrictions like the one you mention (fighter can bash, paladin cannot even try if he wanted) are exactly what "typically" distinguish combat rules of a miniature games from those of a RPG.

We found ourselves taking the same actions over & over since there was no "need" or apparant ability to get creative w/ things in combat. Just use up your best abilities till they are gone, then use your best at-will over & over again...

This sounds because at 1st level, you have not many things to choose from. Surely as you go up in level you have many at-will powers, and you can obviously not use ALL of them at the same time, but you have to choose.

 

[cincinnati reds]

Obviously you just played a few battles without an adventure around them... but I think I know what you mean: some abstract restrictions like the one you mention (fighter can bash, paladin cannot even try if he wanted) are exactly what "typically" distinguish combat rules of a miniature games from those of a RPG.

Sure the Paladin can bash.

Make a to-hit roll; if successful, deal STR damage to your target.

That was hard. Took me all of, like, point-five seconds to come up with it. Sure, it's not as potent as the Fighter's Bash, but then again, the Fighter has trained in the art of shield-bashing whereas the Paladin hasn't.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

From what we gatherred, we found the game fun-- but more of a skirmish miniatures game kind of way than a role-plaaying game kind of way.

We found ourselves taking the same actions over & over since there was no "need" or apparant ability to get creative w/ things in combat. Just use up your best abilities till they are gone, then use your best at-will over & over again...

Okay, let me get this straight. You took two pregenned characters apiece, put them in a featureless room, and had them punch each other in the teeth until one side stayed down. And now you are upset that there wasn't enough roleplay-ey about the game and that there wasn't a need for creativity.

You are aware that you basically put yourself in the absolute worst context to see these things, aren't you? I have trouble seeing how any game could win this contest.

 

[Azgulor]

Sure the Paladin can bash.

Make a to-hit roll; if successful, deal STR damage to your target.

That was hard. Took me all of, like, point-five seconds to come up with it. Sure, it's not as potent as the Fighter's Bash, but then again, the Fighter has trained in the art of shield-bashing whereas the Paladin hasn't.

Right, cause holy warriors wouldn't think to train to use their shield as a weapon.

Also, why is the answer to every criticism of a 4e rule/mechanic to make a house rule? The pro-4e crowd are usually quick to dismiss house-rules that correct "problems" in 3.x. So house rules are ok when it supports your position?

C'mon. Ok, you're a 4e fan, more power to you. The OP's post wasn't arbitrarily bashing 4e. He cited that he liked aspects of it and gave detail about what he didn't like.

And this particular criticism is one of my biggest concerns regarding 4e. In 3e, feats reflected specialized training. If a bonus feat from your class, your options were usually limited, but your level-related bonus feats would let you pick from the fighter list if you were a wizard for example. In 4e, it seems that characters MAY be arbitrarily restricted on what they can or can't do just because of their class. For supernatural powers, I can see that. For mundane actions, not so much.

 

[Kestrel]

Personally, I would prefer that the rules don't explain everything that can be done in the world. I want a system with enough consistency that allows me to rule things quickly without having to look in the book.

This is why 3e failed me. I don't want to have to spend 10 minutes scouring for a rule in a book to rule something as simple as Paladin bashing with his shield. He obviously can do it, but not nearly as well as someone that has trained in it.

 

[SaffroN]

All the stuff that your character can do is listed there-- which is another way of listing the things that other people can't. So the Fighter can bash someone with her shield, but the Paladin cannot... weird.

We haven't seen all of the powers. I imagine that the paladin would get some power(s) to do with shields. Even if that is not the case it doesn't stop you from taking the fighter powers and using it as a paladin.

...but you couldn't use the same maneuver over & over again the way the Ranger kept getting his +4 to hit or the Fighter kept using his Daily till it finally hit... If the ranger could not use his +4 to hit till he had used up a couple of his other moves, I think that would have made there be more variety... Oh well. It was fun.

I'm thinking that this is something to do with power choice for the ranger. when you examine the kind of powers he gets, he only has one power that is focused towards dealing damage against a single foe. The others are for other purposes or situations. I'm assuming that the ranger will have other powers directed at dealing damage against a single foe. Variety is only an issue with the ranger because of his Power selection. likewise the fighter can only hit with the Daily power once. Then he has to move on, increaseing variety of combat powers

 

[Nebulous]

I think the difference between an at ability and a regular attack is that you are active when using your at will ability. Sometimes you are handed an extra action or attack and that is when you use your regular attack. Maybe the warlord and higher levels will take advantage of this?

You have to use a "regular" attack for Opportunity attacks or charging, but normally yes, you use your special stuff.

and also marked my fighter so that he couldn't leave & used his "on pain of death"

How is this ability supposed to work with monsters that don't feel pain? Like a stone golem?