D&D 4E Two-on-Two 4e Brawl

[mhensley]

I would be interested in knowing how this would compare with doing the same thing with 1st level PCs in previous editions. How many options would the PCs have in that case in each round?

Let's see, in Basic or Advanced D&D-

Fighter- attack with long sword every round (any other action is either completely sub-optimal or the rules are incomprehensible)

Cleric- BD&D: attack with mace (no spells at 1st level, mace is about the only decent usable weapon), AD&D: attack with mace, save your single Cure Light Wounds in case someone gets hurt

Thief- shoot with short bow and run away if someone gets close (he only has a couple of hit points and a crappy AC). If it wasn't such a straight up fight, he might try to sneak up on someone and backstab them, but at 1st level this is almost surely suicidal.

Wizard- cast Sleep and opponents fall down- no save unless they're elves. Since the Wizard doesn't need to reserve his spell for later, he will do this every single time and will win every single time. Are you bored yet?

 

[Knight Otu]

How is this ability supposed to work with monsters that don't feel pain? Like a stone golem?

They sense structural disruptions of their frame? Wavering of their animating spirit? Temporary bugs in their programming? That's really the problem with some of the flavor text - this one assumes a living opponent, the Split the Tree power is misreadable as quasi-magic...

I'm not sure if I agree with the idea that the powers read like MtG cards. Perhaps in the vein that both MtG and 4th Edition (and 3rd Edition, really) make an effort at an unified templating, but then, I would expect that from a good game these days. That technically should reduce the chance to misread things (but see above).

 

[Gloombunny]

Obviously you just played a few battles without an adventure around them... but I think I know what you mean: some abstract restrictions like the one you mention (fighter can bash, paladin cannot even try if he wanted) are exactly what "typically" distinguish combat rules of a miniature games from those of a RPG.

I'd like to note that, if you were just looking at character sheets, you wouldn't think 3.5 characters could ever try to hit people with their shields either. Because the rules for shield bashing aren't on character sheets! Tide of Iron isn't a shield-bash ability. It's an ability for pushing your enemies back with your shield after hitting them with your weapon. We really don't know whether or not 4e will have rules for a basic shield-bash or not.

Also, a paladin who really wants Tide of Iron can learn it via Fighter Training, presumably.

 

[Gundark]

Some observations: we both noticed how the powers definately had a Magic the Gathering feel to them (the way the descriptions were written etc, it just seemed that way to us).

Oh Gad, this will be the new buzz-word about 4e now that Chris Pramas stated it. I think I preferred "MMORG Influence"

 

[Wormwood]

Oh Gad, this will be the new buzz-word about 4e now that Chris Pramas stated it. I think I preferred "MMORG Influence"

*shrug*

From what I've seen, 4e displays influence from both MMOs and CCGs.

And the net effect is overwhelmingly positive, IMO. Good design is good design.

 

[Rabbitbait]

We used the same powers almost every round. As the figher I used my Daily every round until I finally hit (ending the combat). Because I never had a chance to hit both guys (they were never close enough) the ranger only ever used his +4 to hit At will ability.

Hmm, I'd use my daily every round as well if I could, but I thought the rules stated you could only use a daily once per day. That's why they make it so kick ass, because you've got to carefully decide when is the best time to use it, keeping in mind that if you use it in this encounter you probably won't have it for the next one.

 

[Lackhand]

Hmm, I'd use my daily every round as well if I could, but I thought the rules stated you could only use a daily once per day. That's why they make it so kick ass, because you've got to carefully decide when is the best time to use it, keeping in mind that if you use it in this encounter you probably won't have it for the next one.

Yesbut. The fighter's daily is "reliable" -- it only gets discharged when successfully executed

 

[Nytmare]

Hmm, I'd use my daily every round as well if I could, but I thought the rules stated you could only use a daily once per day. That's why they make it so kick ass, because you've got to carefully decide when is the best time to use it, keeping in mind that if you use it in this encounter you probably won't have it for the next one.

The fighter daily power has a "if you don't hit, you don't lose this power" caveat.

 

[Walking Dad]

Oh Gad, this will be the new buzz-word about 4e now that Chris Pramas stated it. I think I preferred "MMORG Influence"

Wargames. D&D is influenced by tactical wargames (using boards...)

 

[HP Dreadnought]

Making a power an "at will" power - like +4 to hit - is an easy way of clearly saying you can't use it in combination with other various powers and abilities.

So it sets up a nice framework of "You can get +4 to hit OR you can do this other thing), and it leaves more room in the rules for other powers that restrict the actions you opponent can take. . . rather than building in a -4 to hit on ALL the ranger's other abilities.

. . . and yes, playing a 2 on 2 deathmatch in a small room does feel very different from playing the game. The context in D&D is very significant.