Horwath
Legend
It is.
You take the feat and it is possible.
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D&D 5E Two-Weapon Fighting alteration
- Thread starter cbwjm
- Start date
You take the feat and it is possible.
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Sent from my HummerLE using EN World mobile app
Mercule
Adventurer
I ran the numbers on this, several months ago, and it seemed way overpowered -- something like 1.5x or more of GWM at higher levels. IIRC, it was OK through about 10th level. I didn't save the Excel spreadsheet I used and we've started a new campaign with no TWF characters.
This idea interests me and I'd like to drill-down/understand it.
Are you saying that, if someone is wielding two short swords, you only roll one attack at normal modifiers, and the damage is 1d6 + 1d6 + dex? Rapier + dagger would be 1d8 + 1d4 + dex?
I assume the feat pretty much works, as printed (allowing two rapiers, say). Does the fighting style add double the dex bonus (twin short swords = 2d6 + 2x dex)?
Ganymede81
First Post
Yeah, it pretty much works as you describe.
The fighting style simply wouldn't be compatible anymore with this change, so it'd need to be changed as well. You could always just make it identical the great weapon fighting style in the interim.
jaelis
Oh this is where the title goes?
So you can't attack two different targets? That's a bit of a downside to me.
Ganymede81
First Post
Yeah, but that'd be a good candidate ability for a revised fighting style and/or feat.
jaelis
Oh this is where the title goes?
I suppose that's true you could say that with the fighting style you can split your weapons against different opponents, and if you do you get your +stat to damage. But it could still be that if you attack the same creature with both weapons it counts as one attack and you only add your stat once.
That wouldn't be unbalanced since as a rule focusing damage on one creature is better.
That would still be a bummer for rogues, but I guess they can suck it up. At least they get their bonus action for other things
So, based on the various ideas tossed out in this thread, I'm thinking about doing the following for my game:
Basic Two-Weapon Fighting: Two light melee weapons, off-hand attack requires use of a bonus action or one one-handed melee weapon and one melee weapon with the Off-Hand property (weapons with the Off-Hand property would be club, dagger, light hammer and sickle.) Weapons in the off hand do not add the ability bonus to damage. Anyone can draw a weapon in each hand as part of the same Object Interaction.
Two-Weapon Fighting Style: Gain ability score to damage with the off-hand attack. Off-hand attack is part of the same Action as the normal attack. (Bonus action is no longer required.)
Dual-Wielder (Feat): Weapons are no longer restricted to having the light or off-hand properties. +1 to AC when wielding two weapons. If you do not attack with your off-hand weapon, you can expend your Bonus Action to increase the AC bonus to +2. If both weapons are light or at least one of your weapons has the Off-Hand property and you have the Extra Attack feature, you can make two attacks with your off-hand weapon instead of one.
All together, this means a classic style like rapier and dagger is available out of the gate. Rogue types with single attacks may still go for dual rapiers (should they want to take Dual Wielder) but characters with Extra attack will want something with the off-hand property or two light weapons even after taking Dual Wielder.
Of course, I've also changed Great Weapon Style in my game to add an additional 1d4 damage (rather than the re-roll ability) so it still keeps up (though TWF is superior for characters with only 2 attacks, while GWF pulls ahead again at 3 or more attacks.)
Basic Two-Weapon Fighting: Two light melee weapons, off-hand attack requires use of a bonus action or one one-handed melee weapon and one melee weapon with the Off-Hand property (weapons with the Off-Hand property would be club, dagger, light hammer and sickle.) Weapons in the off hand do not add the ability bonus to damage. Anyone can draw a weapon in each hand as part of the same Object Interaction.
Two-Weapon Fighting Style: Gain ability score to damage with the off-hand attack. Off-hand attack is part of the same Action as the normal attack. (Bonus action is no longer required.)
Dual-Wielder (Feat): Weapons are no longer restricted to having the light or off-hand properties. +1 to AC when wielding two weapons. If you do not attack with your off-hand weapon, you can expend your Bonus Action to increase the AC bonus to +2. If both weapons are light or at least one of your weapons has the Off-Hand property and you have the Extra Attack feature, you can make two attacks with your off-hand weapon instead of one.
All together, this means a classic style like rapier and dagger is available out of the gate. Rogue types with single attacks may still go for dual rapiers (should they want to take Dual Wielder) but characters with Extra attack will want something with the off-hand property or two light weapons even after taking Dual Wielder.
Of course, I've also changed Great Weapon Style in my game to add an additional 1d4 damage (rather than the re-roll ability) so it still keeps up (though TWF is superior for characters with only 2 attacks, while GWF pulls ahead again at 3 or more attacks.)
Xeviat
Dungeon Mistress, she/her
1) It's inefficient if you take the feat.
2) It's not possible in feat-less games.
1d6+1d6+Ability is functionally equal to 1d8+1d4+Ability.
I fully support 2d6+ability to one target or 1d6+ability to two targets. That's super balanced and gives a reason for TWFing to exist.
jaelis
Oh this is where the title goes?
What about this? It keeps things fairly simple I think which is important.
Basic TWF: You can use 2 light weapons or a 1H weapon plus a weapon with the offhand property. You use both weapons on the same target in one attack, and you add your stat once. If you have Extra Attack, you do this for each attack.
Fighting Style: As a bonus action on your turn, you can make an additional attack with your off-hand weapon against a target you did not otherwise attack this turn. Do not add your stat to the damage roll for this attack.
Dual Wielder: As it is now, you can use two 1H weapons and you get +1 to AC.
Basic TWF: You can use 2 light weapons or a 1H weapon plus a weapon with the offhand property. You use both weapons on the same target in one attack, and you add your stat once. If you have Extra Attack, you do this for each attack.
Fighting Style: As a bonus action on your turn, you can make an additional attack with your off-hand weapon against a target you did not otherwise attack this turn. Do not add your stat to the damage roll for this attack.
Dual Wielder: As it is now, you can use two 1H weapons and you get +1 to AC.
Horwath
Legend
With extra attack 1d8+1d8+1d4 is better than 1d6+1d6+1d6, also AoO's are better at 1d8 vs 1d6.
Also, I agree that Dual wielder feat is bad. If it were "half-feat" that would be good.
But most of the TWF issues would be solved with off hand attack being part of the attack action.
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