Two weapon fighting?

[Maldur]

I finally have the chace to play 3.5 ( not run it )
but is it just me, or are the feats/classes/combo's for twoweapon fighting (I play a ranger) oddly lacking?

 

[Jack Simth]

Short answer?
Yes.

Long answer?
Yes and no. As a ranger or fighter, two weapon fighting does not keep up with what the two-handed fighting style under most circumstances. However, as a Rogue who makes use of one-handed ranged weapons (especially effect spells such as Produce Flame by way of Use Magic Device out of wands) it works. Why? Because the Rogue gets a lot of extra damage that is per-hit based, independent of the weapon (sneak attack), rather than varying based on the weapon used (Power Attack and Strength Bonus) like what the Fighter and Ranger get. The ranger can deal with it when he's fighting his most favored enemy... barely.

 

[Thanael]

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml

Try filtering for Fighter feats or Weapon Style feats.

Which weapons do you wield primarily? I kind of like that TWF is better done by Rogues and Rangers than by Fighters, fits the crunch to the fluff for once. Versatility and sneakiness vs. brute force.

 

[phindar]

I had some success with a TWF/Power Attack double weapon wielder Fig/Bar. I had the option of going two hand with PA to do a lot of damage, or go with less damage but more attacks (which was better against high AC foes). Plus, with a double weapon, you're getting your Focus/Specialization on both ends.

 

[Folly]

Produce flame is not particularly effective with regards to two-weapon fighting since it does not provide a weapon effect. Thus the range touch/melee touch both take standard actions to use.

I personally do not like the ranged rogue in any form. It is either rarely achieved or costly to get sneak attack at range.

I do agree that TWF rogues are by far the most powerful form of TWF.

 

[phindar]

He said Produce Flame, but he might have been thinking Flame Blade. I've long wanted to play a TWF Druid who used Flame Blade and a few of the Wild Feats (Lion's Pounce, Elephant's Hide, etc).

 

[NightCrawler]

I have tried to make several builds using the TWF and i have come to the conclusion that Rogues are the best class for using that style of play.

Not only they add full S.A. dmg in each attack but they make even more dmg if they take the Craven feat (Champions of ruin book).

Really hard dmg dealers

 

[Darklone]

Produce flame is not particularly effective with regards to two-weapon fighting since it does not provide a weapon effect. Thus the range touch/melee touch both take standard actions to use.

I personally do not like the ranged rogue in any form. It is either rarely achieved or costly to get sneak attack at range.

I do agree that TWF rogues are by far the most powerful form of TWF.

Do you refer to some errata? The spell as written in the PHB is just like a weapon that can be thrown several times per round if you have Rapid Shot, Haste or iterative attacks.

TWF works if you have sneak attack, skirmish attack and dervish or tempest levels, Dual Strike and Two Weapon Pounce. Plus some ranger spells.

Ranger/Scout with Swift Hunter heading for Dervish.

Or a Daring Outlaw Swash/Rogue who has some flanking mates and the abovementioned feats... though our Daring Outlaw rocked a lot due to good Int and Str. That Int +5 bonus to both hands really hurt a lot in addition to strength 18... stat boosters rock.

 

[Folly]

Upon closer inspection of the subset of rules, I cannot find anything to suggest that you couldn't use a spell with multiple charges in one round. (except for the round that you cast in).

 

[Jack Simth]

He said Produce Flame, but he might have been thinking Flame Blade. I've long wanted to play a TWF Druid who used Flame Blade and a few of the Wild Feats (Lion's Pounce, Elephant's Hide, etc).

I meant produce flame:

Produce Flame

Evocation [Fire]
Level: Drd 1, Fire 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: Flame in your palm
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Flames as bright as a torch appear in your open hand. The flames harm neither you nor your equipment.

In addition to providing illumination, the flames can be hurled or used to touch enemies. You can strike an opponent with a melee touch attack, dealing fire damage equal to 1d6 +1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Alternatively, you can hurl the flames up to 120 feet as a thrown weapon. When doing so, you attack with a ranged touch attack (with no range penalty) and deal the same damage as with the melee attack. No sooner do you hurl the flames than a new set appears in your hand. Each attack you make reduces the remaining duration by 1 minute. If an attack reduces the remaining duration to 0 minutes or less, the spell ends after the attack resolves.

This spell does not function underwater.

(Emphasis added).

The reason I specified Effect spells is that Touch spells are limited to only having one active at a time - Effect spells aren't, so you could have two copies of Produce Flame running without breaking any rules (and take the Two-weapon fighting line to get ranged sneak attack full attacks with them in the first round of battle, assuming you win initiative and cast them in advance) ... although you could argue that either hand works for delivering multi-charged touch spells, and do Two-Weapon Fighting off of a high caster level wand of Chill Touch.

Oh, and you want a Druid with Craft Wand (and Extend Spell, ideally) to make these for you. You get twice the oomph for your money from the Druid version as compared to a Fire domain cleric's version, due to how wands are priced.