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Tyranny of Dragons Getting Republished in Combined Anniversary Volume

So, WotC is re-releasing Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat in a combined volume, with a special cover, re-edited based on feedback, on October 22nd.

Screenshot 2019-08-13 at 23.12.50.png


From ComicBook.com -- "The new Tyranny of Dragons volume will update the adventures by incorporating feedback to smooth out the curve for new players, while adding resources previously only available online and adding never-before-seen concept art. In addition, Tyranny of Dragons will have a new cover designed by Hydro74, depicting Tiamat in all of her five-headed glory."

The adventures are known as being very tough - it sounds like the challenge is being lowered a little.
 
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Comments

jayoungr

Explorer
Great news! I've been thinking for a long time that this would be a great idea. Do we know if the new volume will include "The Frozen Castle"?
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Having heard in advance so much negativity towards HoD, I was pretty surprised when I read it. It has its issues but imo nowhere near the disaster some make it out to be and has some very good set pieces. Personally I think it's better than Storm King's Thunder.
What’s best is when you put the two together.
 

MonsterEnvy

Adventurer
Great news! I've been thinking for a long time that this would be a great idea. Do we know if the new volume will include "The Frozen Castle"?
I hope it does, I also hope it includes the Chapter that was cut involving Galvan the Blue and him trying to steal Valindra's Dragon Orb.
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Would you mind telling a bit about how you did that? I've been thinking the same and always end up with a too "crammed" plot.
Well you have to be willing to drop stuff from both. So the easiest way is to use the 2nd half of SKT as one of the recruitment missions for the final conflict. Basically the council says, we’ve tried contacting the giants for help but something seems to be going on up there because we can’t get an answer. If Blagothkus is still around then he can escort the party north. Once they liberate the Storm King and reinstitute him (and foil Iymrith’s plan) the Giants can offer aid to overthrow the cult at the well of dragons. Some of the most memorable scenes from my campaign came from the SKT segment.

I dropped the metallic dragons mission from ToD (at least, and perhaps another sketchy mission) and left those to other envoys as they weren’t my groups cup of tea.
 

kenmarable

Explorer
I’m excited for it! I think one of the biggest issues they even admitted to at the time was trying to write the adventure while the core rules (and monster stats) kept changing.

So one cleaned up a bit with stable rules and everyone having much more experience with the system could make it really amazing!
 

Parmandur

Legend
I’m excited for it! I think one of the biggest issues they even admitted to at the time was trying to write the adventure while the core rules (and monster stats) kept changing.

So one cleaned up a bit with stable rules and everyone having much more experience with the system could make it really amazing!
Yeah, I wouldn't be interested in a similar re-release for the other APs, but Tyranny of Dragons can use this.

Am I wrong, or is this the first edition nostalgia product WotC has released while the edition in question is still in full swing?
 

Staffan

Adventurer
Yeah, I wouldn't be interested in a similar re-release for the other APs, but Tyranny of Dragons can use this.

Am I wrong, or is this the first edition nostalgia product WotC has released while the edition in question is still in full swing?
Depends on how you count it. 1e had lots of module collections (e.g. first G1, G2, and G3, and then G1-3 and then later included in GDQ1-7) but I don't think they were nostalgia products as much as just compilations.

If you count AD&D as a single edition (which it sort of is - the differences are minuscule, particularly compared to later editions), you have Return to White Plume Mountain, Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff, and Return to the Tomb of Horrors as well.
 

Parmandur

Legend
Depends on how you count it. 1e had lots of module collections (e.g. first G1, G2, and G3, and then G1-3 and then later included in GDQ1-7) but I don't think they were nostalgia products as much as just compilations.

If you count AD&D as a single edition (which it sort of is - the differences are minuscule, particularly compared to later editions), you have Return to White Plume Mountain, Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff, and Return to the Tomb of Horrors as well.
I'd only start counting from the first WotC edition: 3.x nor 4E did this sort of thing that I can recall.
 

LordEntrails

Explorer
Do we have any idea who is going to be credited with the changes/updates for this? I'm wondering if they are using it a 'training' piece for a new developer or if this is being re-done by the original or some other crew.
 

Parmandur

Legend
Do we have any idea who is going to be credited with the changes/updates for this? I'm wondering if they are using it a 'training' piece for a new developer or if this is being re-done by the original or some other crew.
We do not know: however, Wolgang Baur and Steve Winters worked with WotC writing the updates tonthenold modules in Ghosts of Saltmarsh just a few months ago, and have been public in the past about the issues with cutting and changing material in the originals due to shifting realities (they wrote an encounter with 3 CR 3 Assassins, in the final MM they were CR8 but the encounter was already published, there was going to be another dragon dungeons, etc). I would not be surprised if they got a second crack at this, considering their relationship with WotC and stature as developers.
 

Sadras

Explorer
Would you mind telling a bit about how you did that? I've been thinking the same and always end up with a too "crammed" plot.
I'm fortunate enough to be running two con-current groups with the backdrop being ToD / Storm King's Thunder: The Cult via Iymrith is keeping the giants occupied and their actions (along with thewir minions') is threatening to tear the Lord's Alliance apart as they cannot agree to commit forces to assist each other* thereby allowing the Cult to carry on with their machinations unimpeded.

Chapter 3 in SKT, I find, is an invaluable source material since both AP's included plenty travel.
You also have to amend the Council's missions and score card - include missions in dealing with some of the giant strongholds.

So initially follow HotDQ then in RoT:

1st Council Meeting
Other NPC operated parties exist besides the PCs who update regarding giant activity.
(a) Giant attacks on Nightstone, Goldenfields, Brynn Shander and Triboar are backgrounded information;
(b) PCs encounter Zephyros tower after Varram the White or The Sea of Moving Ice

2nd Council Meeting
(c) Harshnag (who considers Waterdeep his home) is present at the Council Meeting and offers to lead PCs to Eye of the All-Father (Chapter 4 SKT)
(d) One of the treasures held Nerovain's Stronghold is a conch OR one of the NPC operated parties bring back a conch OR one of the Metallic Dragons in episode 6 requests the PCs deal with one of the Giant Strongholds (SKT chapters 5-9)
(e) Party uses Conch (Chapter 10 Hold of the Storm Giants)

3rd Council Meeting
(f) Council Knowledge provides information on Golden Goose Coin (Chapter 11 Caught in the Tentacles)
(g) Chapter 12 Doom of the Desert OR have Iymrith immediately leave for the Well of Dragons.

4th Council Meeting
(h) King Hekaton/Daughter declares at Council Meeting the giants will join the small folk against the Cult.
(i) Battle Iymrith (if still alive) at the Well of Dragons with Potions of Giant Size

* Echoing the War of the Silver Marches (refer Everlund and Sundabar entries in Chapter 3 The Savage Frontier). This brings another political aspect to it all with lots of roleplaying opportunity.
 
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Hurin88

Explorer
I hope they fix that potential TPK encounter when you encounter Cyanwrath at that altar. The designers apparently didn't have the final creature stats, or there was a mix up, which makes that encounter WAAAY over budget and quite frankly ridiculous. The designers intended Cyanwrath's two henchmen to be Bandits, IIRC, but in the end they turned out to be Berserkers, so instead of being a minor 1/8 CR annoyances with 11 hit points each, they are instead 2 CR monsters with 67 hit points each.

Our GM was kind, and let some of our party members escape after two were killed.
 

doctorhook

Adventurer
Well...it can’t be worse that HotDQ was originally.

TBH I thought Rise of Tiamat was a cool story, it just seemed like it was designed from the end backwards and that it made less and less sense the further back you go.
 

Hussar

Legend
I'd only start counting from the first WotC edition: 3.x nor 4E did this sort of thing that I can recall.
To be fair, none of the WotC editions lasted this long before. You're not going to bang out updated material for a game that's only 2-3 years old typically. Even if you count 3e as 3e+3.5e, you're still only looking at 7 years (ish) and a good chunk of that was reprinting material from 3e to 3.5.

So long as they aren't doing collections of older material, I'm happy. As soon as they start hitting the "best of" button, that means that it's time for a new edition.
 

PabloM

Explorer
As some said above, I really like the AP despite the negative criticism. There is a lot of space for the DM to create personalized encounters and it has a nostalgic and epic tone that makes me love it from the beginning. I think there's something about Dragonlance in it.


Edit: Corrected translation problems
 
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Sadras

Explorer
If they make any changes to Tiamat they would probably nerf her like they did the Demon Lords in MToF.
She seems pretty potent. My players haven't gotten there yet but they are half-way between level 11 and level 12 with the 3RD council meeting looming. Which leaves
(1) Xonthal's Tower;
(2) Devil Encounter;
(3) Mission to Thay;
(4) Cult Strikes Back scenario;
(5) An Out of the Abyss encounter I have planned in order to bring the Zhentarim into the fold; and maybe
(6) Berg of the Frost Giants from SKT as one of the characters lost their shard (rod of seven parts) to a Frost Giant (Everlasting One) who was using a second piece of the rod as a hair pin.

I'm expecting them to make levels 14 (I doubt 15TH) after all that.
But with her Regen 30hp, immunity to level 6 and lower spells, multiple reactions and Legendary Actions she seems pretty tough on paper.

If you want a real Tiamat, you an use mine ;) : [post=6701417]Tiamat[/post]
Okay I never read the whole entry, I stopped at the first line of stats: AC33

Maximum Proficiency modifier +6
Maximum Strength modifier +5
Magical Weapon bonus +3 (assuming this is allowed in the campaign)
Bless +1d4 bonus
= +15 to + 18 which means you need a 15-18 on the die roll to hit!!!

This probably excludes a potion of a certain giant strength or other magical items, a few choice spells and maybe archery combat style as I was only looking at melee.

I dunno man, she looks like TPK material :)
 
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dalisprime

Explorer
Okay I never read the whole entry, I stopped at the first line of stats: AC33

Maximum Proficiency modifier +6
Maximum Strength modifier +5
Magical Weapon bonus +3 (assuming this is allowed in the campaign)
Bless +1d4 bonus
= +15 to + 18 which means you need a 15-18 on the die roll to hit!!!

This probably excludes a potion of a certain giant strength or other magical items, a few choice spells and maybe archery combat style as I was only looking at melee.

I dunno man, she looks like TPK material :)
He's written her up as a greater deity which, in forgotten realms she is not (she's never been anything more than a lesser deity). Secondly, his tiamat is at full power - the one in the campaign is right just after being summoned so she probably wouldn't be at full strength and can be further crippled when certain conditions are met. Finally his tiamat is meant for epic level campaigns - check her CR - no adventurer sub level 20 can ever hope to best that.
 

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