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Tyranny of Dragons Getting Republished in Combined Anniversary Volume

So, WotC is re-releasing Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat in a combined volume, with a special cover, re-edited based on feedback, on October 22nd.

Screenshot 2019-08-13 at 23.12.50.png


From ComicBook.com -- "The new Tyranny of Dragons volume will update the adventures by incorporating feedback to smooth out the curve for new players, while adding resources previously only available online and adding never-before-seen concept art. In addition, Tyranny of Dragons will have a new cover designed by Hydro74, depicting Tiamat in all of her five-headed glory."

The adventures are known as being very tough - it sounds like the challenge is being lowered a little.
 
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Comments

dave2008

Adventurer
I'm expecting them to make levels 14 (I doubt 15TH) after all that.
But with her Regen 30hp, immunity to level 6 and lower spells, multiple reactions and Legendary Actions she seems pretty tough on paper.
My comment was with regard to @gyor wanting them to beef up Tiamat for the re-released compiled adventure. It is more likley that when the release her stats again, they will be nerfed liked they did with the demon lords from OotA to MToF. However, we don't know yet as the product has not been released yet.

That being said: Tiamat is the most powerful creature yet stated for 5e. She is significantly more difficult than the CR 30 Tarrasque. However, in RoT...[sblock] there are several methods to weaken her so that she can be defeated by a group of PCs[/block]


Okay I never read the whole entry, I stopped at the first line of stats: AC33

Maximum Proficiency modifier +6
Maximum Strength modifier +5
Magical Weapon bonus +3 (assuming this is allowed in the campaign)
Bless +1d4 bonus
= +15 to + 18 which means you need a 15-18 on the die roll to hit!!!

This probably excludes a potion of a certain giant strength or other magical items, a few choice spells and maybe archery combat style as I was only looking at melee.

I dunno man, she looks like TPK material :)
Yes, that stat block is meant to be fought by gods, not mortals. It should be a TPK for a party of level 20 PCs.
 

dave2008

Adventurer
He's written her up as a greater deity which, in forgotten realms she is not (she's never been anything more than a lesser deity). Secondly, his tiamat is at full power - the one in the campaign is right just after being summoned so she probably wouldn't be at full strength and can be further crippled when certain conditions are met. Finally his tiamat is meant for epic level campaigns - check her CR - no adventurer sub level 20 can ever hope to best that.
All true, except I believe Tiamat could have been considered a greater god in 4e. At least there was no official distinction between greater and lesser gods in that edition.
 

dave2008

Adventurer
Okay I never read the whole entry, I stopped at the first line of stats: AC33

Maximum Proficiency modifier +6
Maximum Strength modifier +5
Magical Weapon bonus +3 (assuming this is allowed in the campaign)
Bless +1d4 bonus
= +15 to + 18 which means you need a 15-18 on the die roll to hit!!!

This probably excludes a potion of a certain giant strength or other magical items, a few choice spells and maybe archery combat style as I was only looking at melee.
That is a good point, I think her AC might be to low!
 

dalisprime

Explorer
All true, except I believe Tiamat could have been considered a greater god in 4e. At least there was no official distinction between greater and lesser gods in that edition.

FR wiki lists her as a lesser deity in 4E. 5th edition however appears to have done away with divine rankings altogether. None of the existing tables list their power. SCAG descriptions state which deity serves which but nothing beyond that.
 

dave2008

Adventurer
FR wiki lists her as a lesser deity in 4E. 5th edition however appears to have done away with divine rankings altogether. None of the existing tables list their power. SCAG descriptions state which deity serves which but nothing beyond that.
The wiki is not accurate though. There was no official ranking by WotC in 4e.

However, 5e has brought back rankings (it is in the PHB or DMG I believe). Lesser gods have physical bodies, but greater gods don't though the could manifest avatars with the traits of a lesser god. In the MM Tiamat (pg 86) and Bahamut (pg 103) are described as lesser gods and Asmodeus as the only devil with the power of a lesser god (pg 67).

EDIT: Found it! Divine Rank is defined on page 11 of the DMG (sidebar)
 
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dalisprime

Explorer
The wiki is not accurate though. There was no official ranking by WotC in 4e.

However, 5e has brought back rankings (it is in the PHB or DMG I believe). Lesser gods have physical bodies, but greater gods don't though the could manifest avatars with the traits of a lesser god. In the MM Tiamat (pg 86) and Bahamut (pg 103) are described as lesser gods and Asmodeus as the only devil with the power of a lesser god (pg 67).

EDIT: Found it! Divine Rank is defined on page 11 of the DMG (sidebar)

Fair enough, however notice how - outside that sidebar and the throwaway comment in the MM about the trhee there's practically no into about current divine ranks. We know Lurue (who was previously a demigod), Sekolah, Lolth, Bahamut and Asmodeus are lesser deities but nobody else is defined and the pantheon in FR is huge - especially when you consider that all the deities previously thought as dead are back in one form or another (this I learned from Ed Greenwood). Then there's also the fact that they don't distinguish between lesser and intermediate deities which formed a major part of divine politics in previous editions.
 

dave2008

Adventurer
Fair enough, however notice how - outside that sidebar and the throwaway comment in the MM about the trhee there's practically no into about current divine ranks. We know Lurue (who was previously a demigod), Sekolah, Lolth, Bahamut and Asmodeus are lesser deities but nobody else is defined and the pantheon in FR is huge - especially when you consider that all the deities previously thought as dead are back in one form or another (this I learned from Ed Greenwood). Then there's also the fact that they don't distinguish between lesser and intermediate deities which formed a major part of divine politics in previous editions.
Agreed. I was just pointing out that they are back, if poorly ascribed/
 

Ralif Redhammer

Adventurer
Would agree. I liked much of SKT, but the final boss to me is a let down compared to the rest.

On the whole I liked the Tyranny of Dragons adventure path. I think the second half was better than the first. It’d be good if they made Hoard of the Dragon Queen less of a railroad, but that’s probably too much of an overhaul.

One thing I hope they fix is the twin black dragons in the Mere of Dead Men. I’m pretty sure the first module says they’ll make an appearance in the second module, but they never do

Oh, and that new cover. Absolutely fantastic. I much prefer the more stylized Hydro74 alt covers.

Personally I think it's better than Storm King's Thunder.
 

Superchunk77

Explorer
I heard via Twitter that only the first chapter is being revised, and the rest of the adventure will remain as is, with a few editing/spelling fixes.
 

Parmandur

Legend
I heard via Twitter that only the first chapter is being revised, and the rest of the adventure will remain as is, with a few editing/spelling fixes.
Here's what the official product page says:

FEATURES
Two adventures (Hoard of the Dragon Queen and The Rise of Tiamat) are bound together with a fresh new cover with spectacular art by Hydro74.
Features concept art providing insight into the creative process when crafting this fantastical adventure.
Complete with errata and a reworked opening chapter.

The Errata seems likely to include reworking encounters that were originally miscalculated, so we'll see. Not a total rewrite, but a definite reworking.
 

Wrathamon

Explorer
also, the treasure budgets weren't finalized.

The two biggest complaints I heard was the encounters/treasure budgets being all over the place and the encounters in the beginning where you had to fight the Blue Dragon and the Half Dragon.

The first chapter encounters were pretty hard from what I remember. If you're not good at avoiding enemies you can get really punished. It's a very hard adventure overall if you're not experienced players and just murder-hoboing it.

But, these were just because of the timing of the adventure and poor editing. Steve Winters posts something about changes he would have made.

The other was the some unconventional encounters, one was meant to be a big cinematic movement and the other was to make an enemy rival for later. I think these were very controversial encounters (I liked them) but that was in the first chapter.
 

MonsterEnvy

Adventurer
Fair enough, however notice how - outside that sidebar and the throwaway comment in the MM about the trhee there's practically no into about current divine ranks. We know Lurue (who was previously a demigod), Sekolah, Lolth, Bahamut and Asmodeus are lesser deities but nobody else is defined and the pantheon in FR is huge - especially when you consider that all the deities previously thought as dead are back in one form or another (this I learned from Ed Greenwood). Then there's also the fact that they don't distinguish between lesser and intermediate deities which formed a major part of divine politics in previous editions.
To be honest there was never a need for Intermediate Deities, 1e did not even have them.
 

thexar

Explorer
Does it still start with a 1st level party coming out of the woods to see a large city under siege getting blasted by a dragon, and they're supposed to think "hey guys/gals, we should help those people"?


How about when you jump through a portal and level to 7. If you make your perception check you turn right and are now level 8. If you fail, you go into a time-sink house to kill some stuff that has no connection to the person you'd been chasing. You eventually find that path you missed earlier, because there's nowhere else to go. That is, if the DM read far enough ahead to notice the mislabeled rooms, and you don't get stuck in there like the Overlook Hotel.
 

jayoungr

Explorer
Does it still start with a 1st level party coming out of the woods to see a large city under siege getting blasted by a dragon, and they're supposed to think "hey guys/gals, we should help those people"?
The announcement says they're reworking the opening chapter, so probably not.

How about when you jump through a portal and level to 7. If you make your perception check you turn right and are now level 8. If you fail, you go into a time-sink house to kill some stuff that has no connection to the person you'd been chasing. You eventually find that path you missed earlier, because there's nowhere else to go. That is, if the DM read far enough ahead to notice the mislabeled rooms, and you don't get stuck in there like the Overlook Hotel.
The announcement also says that errata has been incorporated, so that should mean no rooms will be mislabeled.
 
Great news! I've been thinking for a long time that this would be a great idea. Do we know if the new volume will include "The Frozen Castle"?
The Frozen Castle turned out to be a high point in our play through with the kids. They allied with Allac and convinced him and the yetis to help free the castle. From there out, they had a sweet ride and a yeti crew.
 

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