Unarmed Strike Signature Weapon

[HoboGod]

With an extra cumulative 10% exp cost, a Kensai (Complete Warrior) can imbue her natural weapons as she could a masterwork weapon. Does that mean she can also imbue special abilities into her fists?

As a player, it sounds REALLY cool to have flaming punches, however as a DM, I'm trying to ensure a powergaming Monk with Vow of Poverty doesn't take 6 levels of Kensai just to maximize an already broken optimization.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

A VoP monk?

Give him a +5 to hit and damage for free and he still wouldn't be broken.

 

[Jhaelen]

With an extra cumulative 10% exp cost, a Kensai (Complete Warrior) can imbue her natural weapons as she could a masterwork weapon. Does that mean she can also imbue special abilities into her fists?

Yes.

As a player, it sounds REALLY cool to have flaming punches, however as a DM, I'm trying to ensure a powergaming Monk with Vow of Poverty doesn't take 6 levels of Kensai just to maximize an already broken optimization.

*shrug* That's the problem of allowing VoP. I never understood why DMs allow it to be picked by monks.

 

[Dandu]

As a player, it sounds REALLY cool to have flaming punches, however as a DM, I'm trying to ensure a powergaming Monk with Vow of Poverty doesn't take 6 levels of Kensai just to maximize an already broken optimization.

What does this "broken" VoP Monk/Kensai do, I would like to know?

For comparison's sake, at level 13, wizards are capable of planar binding Nightmares for free Etheralness and Astral Projection, Polymorphing people into War Trolls or Hydras, flying all day long, teleporting thousands of miles in a standard action, and traveling the planes.

Sorcerers get most of that plus Wings of Flurry (d6/level force damage, no reflex save for half, dazed on a failure, multiple targets), Ruin Delver's Fortune (immediate action, 1d4 rounds, +Cha mod to fort save & immunity to poison or +Cha mod to will saves & immunity to fear or + Cha mod to ref saves & Evasion or 4d8 + Cha mod temp HP, and Arcane Fusion (cast one spell, emulate the effects of two lower level spells; can be used for infinite loops).

Clerics can either Persist Divine Power and other buffs or have them Quickened/Extended, making them monsters on the battlefield. They also get to cast Holy Word and will likely have enough CL boosts to make it smite anyone of a lower level than then - and possibly people with more levels, depending on the amount of optimization.

And druids? Well, they're druids, the class so powerful that most prestige classes are downgrades in power unless you're talking about Planar Shepard.

And this is all before you throw around truely broken prestige classes like Tainted Scholar, Beholder Mage, Planar Shepard, Dwomerkeeper, Incantatrix, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil...

 

[jefgorbach]

furthermore use Improved Natural Weapon to increase the base damage die.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

*shrug* That's the problem of allowing VoP. I never understood why DMs allow it to be picked by monks.

Monks are a HORRIBLE choice for vow of poverty. They're one of the most item-dependent classes in the game! And that's not even counting that the VoP benefits are significantly inferior to gear, if the PCs are getting anywhere close to expected wealth by level.

So, this player of a "broken character" is playing the worst core class in the game, and traded away his wealth and two of his very very very precious general feats (VoP gives you feats, but the exalted bonus feat options almost universally suck anyway, with a few exceptions) for a crappier benefit than what he'd have with the loot?

Until the OP posts his sheet and proves that he's somehow overpowered, I'm making my save to disbelieve.

 

[HoboGod]

Let's take a level 12 human monk in a high powered campaign (32 point buy), her base stats are 14 str, 15 dex, 13 con, 8 int, 17 wis, 8 cha. She gains two ability scores, turning those stats to something like 14/16/13/8/18/8. With VoP ability enhancements, she'd get +4 wis, +2 dex. The wizard can cast mage armor on her or she can take a level of sorcerer and do it herself, so that's easily a given. Let's tally up her AC! +8 Exalted Bonus, +4 Armor Bonus, +1 Natural Armor, +2 Deflection Bonus, +6 Wisdom Bonus, +4 Dexterity Bonus = AC 35, Touch 31, Flat-Footed 31. And on top of that, she has DR 5/magic. Most dragons aren't so blessed with this kind of unkillablilty.

I'm not saying VoP Monk is a powerhouse compared to spellcasters and whatnot, goodness no. But in terms of controlling the frontline, a VoP monk can do everything and more that a beefy paladin in a full plate and tower shield wishes she could do, but at double the speed and no armor restrictions and penalties.

 

[Dandu]

First, a question: do you like apples?

Let's take a level 12 human monk in a high powered campaign (32 point buy), her base stats are 14 str, 15 dex, 13 con, 8 int, 17 wis, 8 cha. She gains two ability scores, turning those stats to something like 14/16/13/8/18/8. With VoP ability enhancements, she'd get +4 wis, +2 dex. The wizard can cast mage armor on her or she can take a level of sorcerer and do it herself

Not with an 8 in Charisma, she can't.

Let's tally up her AC! +8 Exalted Bonus, +4 Armor Bonus, +1 Natural Armor, +2 Deflection Bonus, +6 Wisdom Bonus, +4 Dexterity Bonus = AC 35, Touch 31, Flat-Footed 31. And on top of that, she has DR 5/magic. Most dragons aren't so blessed with this kind of unkillablilty.

Scintillating Scales (turns NA bonus to a deflection bonus. Dragons get a large amount of NA, right?). Wings of Cover (immediate action for total cover against 1 attack, spell, or AOE effect). Ruin Delver's Fortune (you know what that does).

A CR 11 Adult Dragon with one class level in Sorcerer is a CR 12 threat. It casts spells as a 4th level sorcerer, so guess what? Let's tally up her AC! AC 27 (-1 size,+18 natural deflection), touch 27, flat-footed 27. Add on Mage Armor for a +4 armor bonus to AC, and Shield for a +4 shield bonus to AC. AC 35, Touch 27, Flat-footed 35.

There's the option of having the other 2nd level spell be either Wings of Cover, Blur, or Mirror Image.

They can also fly, which adds to unkillability by preventing people from reaching them - people like VoP monks who can't fly.

Incidentally, the attack bonus of the dragon would be +27, his HP would be 241, and his saves would be Fort +17/Ref +12 /Will +15. The monk's attack bonus is +11/+6, has about 70 HP and her saves seem like they will be Fort +9/Ref +11/Will +13.

I'm not saying VoP Monk is a powerhouse compared to spellcasters and whatnot, goodness no. But in terms of controlling the frontline, a VoP monk can do everything and more that a beefy paladin in a full plate and tower shield wishes she could do, but at double the speed and no armor restrictions and penalties.

What does the VoP monk do to control the front line? Damage? Tripping? Grappling?

From what I can see, the VoP Monk doesn't have the strength to matter; it is no more than a speed bump that can be easily sidestepped if you're on the ground and laughed at in derision if you happen to be some sort of flying, fire breathing lizard with spellcasting.

So, how do you like them apples?

 

[pawsplay]

VoP is one of the worst things ever written for D&D. On the one hand, it doles out, cheaply, magical bonuses worth several times the average wealth for that level, trivializing many adventuring issues. At the same, it cripples the character, making them almost useless in combat or for using important utility items. VoP manages to be both too strong and too weak. It also messes with treasure distribution. Its only saving grace is that by the time such a character starts disrupting your campaign, they will likely be killed by their pitiful combat capabilities.

 

[PolterGhost]

I'M A DRAGON RAWR

Nice to see how VoP stacks up on a dragon, but how does it compare to a similarly leveled character without VoP?