Uncanny Dodge - Flatfooted vs. Denied Dex to AC

[Lonely Tylenol]

If you want to rationalize it, you can think of it as the not-blinded man being able to pick up on minor visual cues that there is someone there, even if he can't see him. The wind, though we cannot see it, moves things as it passes. So might an invisible person kick up dust, etc.

Only if you make the DC 20 Spot check. Assume neither of them do, and the problem remains.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That makes a for funny result. If an invisible attacker walks up to a pair of enemies, one of whom is blinded, he can attack the not-blinded enemy with a net +2 to hit, or the blinded enemy for a net +4 to hit. Neither one can see him, because he is visually undetectable. But the blind guy can't see him more.

Actually, I take it back - "This bonus doesn’t apply if the target is blinded."

So if the target is blinded and if you consider this to grant an effective invisible condition, the attacker gets a +2 that doesn't apply.

-Hyp.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Amazing. I'm still learning stuff about 3.5, despite it being nearly 4 years since I bought the darn books!

 

[Pickaxe]

Actually, I take it back - "This bonus doesn’t apply if the target is blinded."

So if the target is blinded and if you consider this to grant an effective invisible condition, the attacker gets a +2 that doesn't apply.

-Hyp.

Huh. Now what I thought was an oversight actually appears to make sense...I think.

So, a grimlock's blindsight (and, in fact, its blindness alone) negates the effects of invisibility, but it is still blind, so it takes -2 to AC, loses its Dex bonus, takes a -4 penalty to a bunch of skills, moves at half speed, and can't run or charge?

--Axe

 

[Hypersmurf]

So, a grimlock's blindsight (and, in fact, its blindness alone) negates the effects of invisibility, but it is still blind, so it takes -2 to AC, loses its Dex bonus, takes a -4 penalty to a bunch of skills, moves at half speed, and can't run or charge?

Interesting question, which isn't directly addressed in the rules that I can see.

We have the line "Using nonvisual senses, such as sensitivity to vibrations, keen smell, acute hearing, or echolocation, a creature with blindsight maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature."

"Maneuvers and fights as well as", to me, suggests that AC is unaffected and speed is unaffected, but it's not clearly stated. Someone who is denied his Dex bonus to AC is not fighting as well as someone who retains it!

-Hyp.