Uncanny Dodge Question (It's a new one)

[Teambanzai]

I have recently started playing in a D&D 3.5 gestalt campaign. I decided to run a Warlock/Scout... I figured to be a quick hitting ranged touch attack type. In our last adventure we ran into some baddies that had rogue levels. As I began attacking I was informed that my skirmish damage would not apply as the rogues had "Uncanny Dodge". Well the RAW do not mention uncanny dodge affecting skirmish in any shape or form... the closest thing is a couple of lines in the Rules Compendium about "precision damage", which skirmish falls under (and still very vague at best).

My DM's logic is that Uncanny Dodge, in the "Spirit" of the ability should apply to all precision damage attacks.

Does anyone know if there are any rules/opinions - written or posted about this topic?
Is there any erratta what so ever about this.

I can't find anything. Any help and any interpretations of Uncanny Dodge applying to skirmish damage would be greatly appreciated.

 

[shadyizok]

Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

If a rogue already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
A rogue of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked.

This defense denies another rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does.

If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

The way I read it, it only counts for flanking purposes and for sneak attacking. Skirmish does not require you to flank the opponent to deal the damage, just to run around like a headless chicken. You should be able to skirmish someone with improved uncanny dodge nomather what your lvl.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Uncanny Dodge protects you from being flatfooted. Improved UD protects you from being flanked (most of the time). that is all. Nothing more. If your damage relies on the opponent being flatfooted and/or flanked, UD/IUD can prevent that damage. If you have skirmish, which does not require either condition, Uncanny Dodge doesn't do a damned thing to protect a creature.

Precision damage in general means two things: Immunity to crits protects from it; at a range, it can only be used up to 30 ft away from the target. That is it.

If your DM continues to insist that you have to meet sneak attack's requirements, you should insist to gain the benefits, too -- does he let you skirmish on a full attack if you're flanking? Can you pop off a standard action bow shot with skirmish damage on the surprise round on a flatfooted target? (In each case, I've assumed you're not using one of the multitude of "take two 5 ft steps" tricks to otherwise qualify for skirmish anyway) if not, ask him why skirmish only is treated as sneak attack when it's beneficial to the NPCs. Tell him you're going to start applying skirmish damage and AC bonus when hidden/invisible or flanking until he stops penalizing you against uncanny dodge.

 

[Corsair]

I agree with both of the other posters.

UD: Prevents losing dex when flatfooted.
IUD: Prevents flanking.

Neither of those factors in any way related to skirmish.

 

[Voadam]

Skirmish damage is when you move, not when your opponent is denied their dex or you are flanking them so uncanny dodge does not apply.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Your DM said it was because of it being precision damage, right? Ask him kindly to point out to you anywhere at all Uncanny Dodge or Improved Uncanny Dodge even so much as make mention of precision damage. They don't even mention sneak attack! They prevent sneak attack, because sneak attack itself spells out the conditions needed to get it, and UD happens to ruin those conditions. Skirmish is the same, except none of its conditions are ruined by UD.

I know you wanted rules sources or citations, but some things really are just plain old common sense.

 

[Corsair]

Your DM said it was because of it being precision damage, right? Ask him kindly to point out to you anywhere at all Uncanny Dodge or Improved Uncanny Dodge even so much as make mention of precision damage. They don't even mention sneak attack! They prevent sneak attack, because sneak attack itself spells out the conditions needed to get it, and UD happens to ruin those conditions. Skirmish is the same, except none of its conditions are ruined by UD.

I know you wanted rules sources or citations, but some things really are just plain old common sense.

Actually I believe IUD does mention sneak attack, but only in the context of it being a consequence of not being flanked.

 

[irdeggman]

For pretty good detailed text on precision damage go to the Rules Compendium pg 42.

It pretty much says that precision damage applies to all attacks that meet the requirements of the ability that grants the damage.

The scout's skirmish entry says nothing about the opponent being denied his Dex Bonus to AC as a result of the attack.

 

[irdeggman]

I agree with both of the other posters.

UD: Prevents losing dex when flatfooted.

UD is actually broader than that - you retain your Dex Bonus to AC,"even if" not "only in" the conditions listed.


But I agree with you.