Uncanny Dodge vs. Blindness

[hong]

Can we get back to arguing about alignments now?


Hong "testing this spiffy new and improved EN World" Ooi

 

[evileeyore]

Ah, I see. You are viewing invisible as meaning "not visually detectable". I'm viewing it as meaning "not visually detected". One is a statement of capability, the other a statement of current condition.

So I now have the chance of 'visually detecting' some who is invisible?!? Cool, I want in to your games. But first I want a list of all the other houserules you've instituted.

Back up Logical Statement:

'Not Visually Detected'=Visually Detectable
SRD on Invisible=Invisibility makes a creature undetectable by vision, including darkvision.

I can only imagine what sort of convoluted spaghetti rules nightmare your games must be. Luckily me and my players know when to apply a liberal helping of common sense and use englsh instead of only the tiny subset of it defined in the PHB glossary.

Probably the same 'spaghetti' rules that are clearly printed in the Core books. I believe liberal is correct in your 'enterpretations' of these rules here.

 

[James McMurray]

Can we get back to arguing about alignments now?


Hong "testing this spiffy new and improved EN World" Ooi

No! Because everybody knows that arguing about alignment is an evil act, and just suggesting it has cost you your paladinhood!

 

[Hypersmurf]

No! Because everybody knows that arguing about alignment is an evil act, and just suggesting it has cost you your paladinhood!

Hong's losing his paladinhood right now, IYKW...

Ah, forget it.

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

So I now have the chance of 'visually detecting' some who is invisible?!? Cool, I want in to your games.

Yep, all you have to do is be able to see invisible creatures through some means (probably magical). If you look in the SRD under invisibility, you'll see that "some creatures can detect or even see invisible creatures." Thus, even the SRD knows that sometimes you can visually detect someone who is visually undetectable.

Unless of course "see" doesn't mean "visually detect". Its a pity that the PHB Glossary didn't give us a definition of the word "see".

But first I want a list of all the other houserules you've instituted.

http://www.colugo.org/james in the house rules section. Its a relatively new site, and just being used by our group, so some house rules we use are probably missing from that list.

Back up Logical Statement:

'Not Visually Detected'=Visually Detectable
SRD on Invisible=Invisibility makes a creature undetectable by vision, including darkvision.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that. Are you saying that its your backup statement? Are you telling me that I should back it up? Are you even trying to make a point with it?

Probably the same 'spaghetti' rules that are clearly printed in the Core books. I believe liberal is correct in your 'enterpretations' of these rules here.

You're more than welcome to think that. I happen to disagree, and believe that when the PHB glossary doesn't define a term (in this case "hidden") we have to fall back on the English definition of it (in this case "not visible" which is also the definition of "invisible").

Entry: Hidden
Synonyms: abstruse, buried, clandestine, cloaked, close, clouded, concealed, covered, covert, cryptic, dark, disguised, eclipsed, esoteric, hermetic, hermetical, imperceivable, indiscernible, invisible, latent, masked, mysterious, mystic, mystical, obscure, occult, private, QT, recondite, screened, secluded, secreted, sequestered, shadowy, shrouded, surreptitious, ulterior, undercover, underground, undetected, undisclosed, unexposed, unknown, unrevealed, unseen, veiled, withheld

 

[James McMurray]

Hong's losing his paladinhood right now, IYKW...

Ah, forget it.

-Hyp.

That's what I expected him to say!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Entry: Hidden
Synonyms: abstruse, buried, clandestine, cloaked, close, clouded, concealed, covered, covert, cryptic, dark, disguised, eclipsed, esoteric, hermetic, hermetical, imperceivable, indiscernible, invisible, latent, masked, mysterious, mystic, mystical, obscure, occult, private, QT, recondite, screened, secluded, secreted, sequestered, shadowy, shrouded, surreptitious, ulterior, undercover, underground, undetected, undisclosed, unexposed, unknown, unrevealed, unseen, veiled, withheld

"I cast Baleful Polymorph on the hydra!"
"Sorry, you need to be Close to affect him. You're still out at Medium range."
"Okay, I make a Hide check. Now I'm Close!"

-----

"Hmm. We've been all over this top level, and we haven't found any way to get down into the dungeon..."
"I make a Hide check. Now I'm Underground!"

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

Yep. And woe to the foolish rogue that makes a hide heck near an occult slayer, because he is now occult.

Any vampires caght out in the sun? No problem, they just have to make a hide check and now they are safely buried.

Cold outside? Just make a hide check nd now you're cloaked.

And I'm not sure why they even created the Disguise skill, because you can become disguised just by making a hide check and being hidden.

Obviously not every synonym of a word applies in every instance. Yet another time when common sense must enter into the equation.

 

[Caliban]

So I now have the chance of 'visually detecting' some who is invisible?!? Cool, I want in to your games. But first I want a list of all the other houserules you've instituted.

Err... That's not exactly a house rule when it's in the core rules. You can detect the presence (but not exact location) invisible people with a high enough spot check: DC 20 if they are moving, DC 30 if they are standing still, DC 40 if it's completely immobile.

It's even possible to pinpoint their location (determine which square they are in) with a spot check: DC 40 if they are moving, DC 50 if they are standing still, DC 60 if they are completely immobile.

This is all in the DMG on page 295, under "Invisibility"

 

[Darklone]

Err... That's not exactly a house rule when it's in the core rules. You can detect the presence (but not exact location) invisible people with a high enough spot check: DC 20 if they are moving, DC 30 if they are standing still, DC 40 if it's completely immobile.

It's even possible to pinpoint their location (determine which square they are in) with a spot check: DC 40 if they are moving, DC 50 if they are standing still, DC 60 if they are completely immobile.

This is all in the DMG on page 295, under "Invisibility"

Hey, we are heros, sure we can see something that's visually undetectable