Unconscious and making Reflex saves?

[Marimmar@Home]

Hi, the following situation came up last session and I wanted to know how it's resolved by the RAW.

Here's the situation:

Monk runs ahead of the party toward the enemy's throne room and opens the doors. (2 move actions, monk is done acting)
Enemy fighter guards (having delayed until the doors opened) take 5' steps, full attack monk and bring him into the negatives instantly. (ouch)
Rest of the party arrives to engage the fighters.
Enemy spellcasters rain fireballs and flamestrikes on our position (including the position of the dying monk)

So the question is, does the dying, unconscious, and therefore helpless monk receive a saving throw against those area spells? Do his items get fried?

I'm rather clueless about the situation since I cannot find any rules about this dilemma.

~Marimmar

 

[green slime]

The monk is autofried.

 

[glass]

I believe the monk gets his save as normal, except that his Dex is affectively 0 because he can't move. So his save is at a -5 for zero Dex in place of his normal Dex modifier.

I don't think it says that characters with 0 Dex automatically fail reflex saves, but it might, in which case I'm wrong.

In any case, his equipment survives as long as he does, after which point it becomes unatended and starts having to make his own saves.


glass.

 

[Marimmar@Home]

But where does it say that? The helpless condition only states that he is treated as having 0 Dex, which means he's rigid, motionless, etc but in effect it only affects a reflex save as a -5 penalty and evasion ceases to work because of being helpless. And what about the monk's items. Are they considered attended as long as there's at least a single hp of life left? Or are they fair game to the gods of fire?

~Marimmar

edit: This was in response to green slime's post

 

[glass]

But where does it say that?

If it says it anywhere, it'll be in the descriptions of the effects of zero ability scores in the PHB. The bit which say Con 0=dead, and Wis 0 puts you into a nightmare haunted sleep.

I don't have my books with me ATM (I'm at work) so I can't check, but I don't think it's there.


glass.

 

[Marimmar@Home]

It's just that I find unconscious characters making Reflex saves a bit far fetched. OTOH I cannot find a ruling that supports the theory that someone incable of actions cannot make Reflex saves.

~Marimmar

 

[Marimmar@Home]

If it says it anywhere, it'll be in the descriptions of the effects of zero ability scores in the PHB.

It's not there, already looked it up.

~Marimmar

 

[Thanee]

By the rules, you would probably make a reflex save with -5 from Dex, but that's rather silly, really.

I would just make a d20 roll to see, whether the items get hurt (on a 1), and give the monk no save at all. Tough, but lying unconscious in a barrage of fireballs is tough luck, indeed.

Bye
Thanee

 

[glass]

It's just that I find unconscious characters making Reflex saves a bit far fetched. OTOH I cannot find a ruling that supports the theory that someone incable of actions cannot make Reflex saves.

I suppose it was intended to stop unconcious PCs dying if a foe cast an area effect spell at their still concious comrades. I agree that it seems a little silly on the face of it, but on the other hand, I guess unconcious characters can still be lucky!


glass.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

'Course, if your in negative HP then even if he made his save there is a good chance of fried monk on toast.

Technically I believe that the save is allowed at the -5 penalty.

The Auld Grump