Unconscious and making Reflex saves?

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Alternatively, they could easily have said,

"I delay until someone opens the door."

The monk charges up (move action) and opens the door (move action, turn's over), and then the warriors guarding it undelay.

A delay is similar, in some respects, to readied action. Whereas a readied action drops you into initiative order just ahead of the character / creature who caused your action to fire, a delay inserts you into initiative order just before or just after another creature's action.

"I delay until after Jill goes," works, as does "I delay until just before Jill."

Similarly, "I delay until someone opens the door" means the warriors stand around, someone opens the door, and then, after the turn of the person who opened the door, the warriors go (in Dex order, probably).

Had the monk ended his turn next to the door and not opened it, instead opening it as his first move action on his next turn, he'd have had a move action / standard action remaining to attack the warriors or back up before they could attack him.

 

[KarinsDad]

Exactly - Ready allows your action to occur BEFORE the trigger event, while Delay actions occur AFTER an event. In this case, the fighters would have had to KNOW you were coming, waited until you acted and THEN taken their actions.

Their actions in this case certainly don't sound logical to me. How did they know that only the monk would run in? What would have happened if you laid waste to them after you opened the door with a knock spell? Their delayed actions never would have occurred.

What they did is a VERY RISKY gamble to take for a defensive position. It certainly smacks of foresight or meta-gaming. I suppose the real clarification we need to understand more is "Did the monk's movement get interrupted by the attacks from the guards?" If Yes, then someone didn't play by the rules....if No, then the monk was flat out stupid for running into a room full of waiting fighters.....

You can only do two move actions in a round. Move up to door. Open door. It sounds like the rules were followed to me.


Years ago, there were a few discussions about how the Delay action was pretty useless and people could not understand why anyone would do it.

I Delay my PC in our game all of the time, almost every combat. At some point after I have Delayed, I tell the DM: "Ok, put me in.". Sometimes, this is a round or two later.

The reason is that either the other PCs have the situation well in hand and I do not have to waste effort (fire and lose a crossbow bolt, use a psionic power, or risk my psion in melee combat even though she is pretty good at it) when I can save my resources for later on, or because I am analyzing the situation and coming up with a plan to overcome the challenge in a more expedient manner.

It also gives our group the opportunity to quickly react to an unexpected new twist in the combat.

For example, if an enemy Wizard pops up out of nowhere and Fireballs our front line, I can attack him immediately after his attack, or I can immediately heal an unconscious PC, or whatever.

I have found Delay to be one of the more useful actions that can be done, often more useful than Readying.


The description of the encounter by the original poster sounds kosher to me. Delaying behind a closed door is something that I would have my PC do. It allows you to attack very quickly and it allows you to get a full round of action in.

 

[Stalker0]

Saving throws don't just include ability, they account for the situation and luck as well.

A pass in this case, would be the monk survived because of the way the floor was shaped...or he just got damn lucky.

 

[KarinsDad]

Has anyone found the exact quote (and location) of the "room to move" text?

 

[hero4hire]

I also wonder in the example..If one of the consious PCs grabbed the dying Monk and tried ducking, dodging said fireballs. What would happen. Reflex saves arent penalized for being encumbered are they?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Has anyone found the exact quote (and location) of the "room to move" text?

It's in the DMG, under Special Abilities, Evasion:

"As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade."

-Hyp.

 

[diaglo]

I also wonder in the example..If one of the consious PCs grabbed the dying Monk and tried ducking, dodging said fireballs. What would happen. Reflex saves arent penalized for being encumbered are they?

yes, iirc, there are penalties to your max dex bonus for being encumbered.

 

[Legildur]

Saving throws don't just include ability, they account for the situation and luck as well.

A pass in this case, would be the monk survived because of the way the floor was shaped...or he just got damn lucky.

Would that be why a natural 1 is always a fail (bad luck) and a natural 20 is always a success (good luck)?

I've also heard stories about incidents where Army safety officers in grenade throwing bays have escaped serious harm (except deafness) after a dropped grenade has exploded right next to them. Not everything behaves uniformly.