D&D (2024) Understanding "nostalgia"

[Yaarel]

The world used to be the best ever, whenever people happen to be in their teens.


The survey was for a politically-loaded question, "When was America the greatest?" But in the neutral analysis of the responses, the analysts realized were looking at the phenomenon of nostalgia. A more neutral study from Australia, then confirmed the data results.

The Australian study focused on the question: when was the best music? It had the survey participants listen to top songs from every other year across many decades. The participants rated whether they like the song or not.

It turns out there is a strong tendency across the population. The best music ever is whenever the listener was in their teens. There is a peak of the best music ever at age 16. Heh. Everything that happens before someone is born, sucks. Everything that happens after someone turns 35, sucks.

These strong preferences for the music from when one was in ones teens, is also roughly true for the "best" movies ever and the "best" television shows ever.


It seems safe to say for most players, the "best" D&D edition was whichever one was happening during ones teen years.

As a corollary, for any design developments that are happening today, the ones that most resemble the "best" edition will feel like the "best" ones.

As an other corollary, the best way to ensure the success of future D&D is to look closely at whatever teens are doing now.


The rosy-colored glasses of nostalgia for ones teens, even hold true for absurd questions, like "When was the least crime?" The world as it was during the formative teen years profoundly shapes the perceptions and preferences for the rest of ones life. Statistically, speaking. There are of course individuals who prefer the newer trends and who dont self-identity with the survey results. But that people generally tend to be under the influence of nostalgia, is worth knowing.

 

[ezo]

In my teens I played 1E and it will always have a special place in my heart. Despite the numerous flaws, complications, etc.--most of which many players ignored--it was the dawning of the game in many ways IMO.

However, there is a lot about 5E that I enjoy quite a bit. I've looked into many OSR games which tried to bring back that AD&D feel, but never found one that does it well. Other aspects of 5E I find overkill and take away from the enjoyment of the adventure--focusing too much on the character and "features".

AD&D classes were simple, but comparison, but the game/rules were more complex. 5E, IMO, turned things around, making classes/characters more complex, and trying to simplify the game/rules.

My preference would be for the simple sides for both, but I know many others who would probably prefer the more complex sides for both--like A5E, etc.

 

[Oofta]

I'm not nostalgic. I enjoy some music from when I was a teen, but I'm just as, or even more likely, to enjoy new stuff or from all eras. Then again, when it comes to music I like listening to something I've heard, at least now and then. Things were not better when I was growing up, not that they were terrible but I don't have rose colored glasses either.

That definitely goes for old school D&D. The system has evolved over the decades to a much better game, at least for me. I'm a bit nostalgic about the friends I had, the games we played, the laughs and the stories. But the rules? Nah, they were kind of trash.

 

[payn]

I think the mistake here is folks assume the changes need to fundamentally change something based on what the teens be doing. For example, "teens today like anime alot, so Harry Potter should be more anime", is often the logic line folks use with D&D. When you have a legacy product you cant toss its identity in pursuit of new audience and expect success. Even if you achieve it, you would be doing this every 10-20 years for generational change over. NEXT was a deep dive into generational tastes, both new and old, and they managed to make the most successful D&D yet by designing everyone's second favorite edition. Pretty smart.

 

[Shardstone]

My teens sucked ass.

 

[Kobold Stew]

This is an interesting graph, I and I want to check out the full study.

I'm not sure that it can transfer automatically to RPGs, but it might do.

It seems safe to say for most players, the "best" D&D edition was whichever one was happening during ones teen years.

For this, I am an outlier -- AD&D was fun and all, but there is no way it was the "best" edition (in my view). I am excited to see what we have now, and where the game is going.

I can think of lots of reasons why I think the current game is better (much wider demographics and less stigmatization of players being major ones, but design ethos for inclusion, attempts at balance, etc. are all in my view improvements), but the data you present does point towards the conservatism we see regularly in posters on boards like this.

As a corollary, for any design developments that are happening today, the ones that most resemble the "best" edition will feel like the "best" ones.

Again, not true for me, but possibly true for a majority.

As an other corollary, the best way to ensure the success of future D&D is to look closely at whatever teens are doing now.

This does seem right to me. I know a 20-y-o (a daughter of friends) who has three gaming groups, with 15 distinct people (none of whom identify as male), that meet every two weeks or more frequently.

More than anything else, her experience is the face of D&D that I want to support, and that makes me excited for the game's future.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I think that there is a fundamental misunderstanding when people attribute preferences for nostalgia.

Nostalgia is certainly a powerful feeling, and it drives a lot of decisions. I think it is inarguable that the majority of people form their musical tastes early, and as they age no longer are able to keep up with the changing landscape (not everyone, but most people).

On the other hand, there is also a comfort in traditions and ritual that gets overlooked; for example, many of the things that people thought of as stupid or corny as teens they return to later- the same teen that might roll their eyes at a family holiday tradition will begin recreating it themselves, not because of nostalgia, but because those traditions and rituals have meaning and comfort to them.

When it comes to brands and products, its always a careful balance between pivoting to the new and retaining the old. There is no single right answer. But it needs to be remembered that if you have an established brand, part of that brand is that continuity of the brand, because that is the power. Break the continuity, or call it into question, and the brand itself is called into question.

Given the inherent fickleness of teens, it is usually a fool's errand for brands to exclusively cater to that market long-term. What works for a period of time will quickly be seen as uncool or dated, and if you are constantly changing, then you lose the continuity that the brand would need.

Put another way, if D&D were re-formulated to exclusively appeal to teens today, it would look incredibly dated not just to people in a while, but to those teens themselves in a few years.

 

[GMMichael]

The world used to be the best ever, whenever people happen to be in their teens.

The nation used to be the best, ever. America (USA?) and Australia have some special conditions going for them.

The rosy-colored glasses of nostalgia for ones teens, even hold true for absurd questions, like "When was the least crime?" The world as it was during the formative teen years profoundly shapes the perceptions and preferences for the rest of ones life. Statistically, speaking. There are of course individuals who prefer the newer trends and who dont self-identity with the survey results. But that people generally tend to be under the influence of nostalgia, is worth knowing.

Is this why I have to suffer through horrible renditions of '90s songs whenever I watch a new movie trailer?

 

[Reynard]

I'm a little uncertain about the findings. Movies now are much better, on average, that they were in the early 90s when I was a teen. Are there some stand outs? Of course, but Willow I'd nothing compared to Lord of the Rings, etc...

As to D&D: I think we have nostalgia for the things other than the system, like having time enough to play for hours on end and dig deep into books and experience honest to goodness wonder.

 

[Gorck]

The fundamental flaw in this hypothesis is that people tend to listen to music all throughout their lives; whether intentionally (playing records, cassette tapes, CDs, streaming files) or subconsciously (background music in stores/restaurants/movies/TV shows/TV commercials). Whereas people who play D&D don't necessarily start playing at a young age. I introduced my daughter to it when she was 7, and we got her friend into it when they were 11. But, sadly, I didn't start playing until I was in my mid-20s.