D&D 5E Understanding Passive Checks

[Charlaquin]

Sure, for you grognards New players must scratch their heads about it. I know I did/do.

Haha that’s such a weird thing to be called, especially for referencing a 3e rule, since I barely played 3e and kinda hated it.

But yeah, the name “passive check” is terribly misleading - so much so, it even seems to have tricked Crawford into thinking it was his actually his intent for them to act as a floor, which is absolutely wild to me.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I've always treated Passive Perception and Passive Investigation as floors. It was only after their passives didn't find something would they then roll to see if they could get higher by actually using their time and actions to actively search.

 

[billd91]

I've always treated Passive Perception and Passive Investigation as floors. It was only after their passives didn't find something would they then roll to see if they could get higher by actually using their time and actions to actively search.

Well, it does enter a kind of weird space. If passive is on all the time, which passive perception essentially is, it kind of does become the floor on anything you'd active use perception for. And that's one of its major conceptual problems as a rule.

 

[Charlaquin]

Well, it does enter a kind of weird space. If passive is on all the time, which passive perception essentially is,

Not from the way the book describes it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Eh... to me it works fine. When I have stuff that is hidden I either assign a DC if it's rather inconsequential, or I will roll a hide check for the person or object that is trying not to be seen. This then gives me the DC to be found. If someone's Passive Perception (for noticing living creatures hiding) or Passive Investigation (for noticing inanimate objects that have been hidden) is high enough to hit the DC, then they just happen to notice or find the thing through no real action other than their basic senses being on (and shame on the person who did such a crappy job hiding themselves / the thing.) If the passive isn't high enough to just notice the person/object/trap... then if the players announce that they are using their action to actively search, they can then roll in hopes of rolling an 11 or above (such that the result is greater than their passive check was.) If the roll was 10 or less, then they did no better finding things actively than their subconscious basic senses did passively.

Obviously this won't work for every DM out there, but it's never steered me wrong.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Eh... to me it works fine. When I have stuff that is hidden I either assign a DC if it's rather inconsequential, or I will roll a hide check for the person or object that is trying not to be seen. This then gives me the DC to be found. If someone's Passive Perception (for noticing living creatures hiding) or Passive Investigation (for noticing inanimate objects that have been hidden) is high enough to hit the DC, then they just happen to notice or find the thing through no real action other than their basic senses being on (and shame on the person who did such a crappy job hiding themselves / the thing.) If the passive isn't high enough to just notice the person/object/trap... then if the players announce that they are using their action to actively search, they can then roll in hopes of rolling an 11 or above (such that the result is greater than their passive check was.) If the roll was 10 or less, then they did no better finding things actively than their subconscious basic senses did passively.

Obviously this won't work for every DM out there, but it's never steered me wrong.

Right. So you have given everyone 'reliable talent' rogue class feature in investigation and perception.

 

[Asisreo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my reading of the Hiding rules is that its a specific use to a general feature that otherwise wouldn't be done that way.

Basically, if someone is actively searching, they use their active stealth check for whatever they're searching for in particular. Basically, they have to know you've at least been there before.

When you're hiding from a creature that isn't looking for you, you contest their Passive Perception unless they're putting their attention on something else. Basically, scouting.

Otherwise, Passive Perception works the same as other Passive checks. They are used for repeating tasks or letting the DM keep info hidden.

Lastly, Passive checks in general are not Passive skills. The Passive rule can apply to pure Ability Checks as well.

So you can have Passive Insight to see if you can avoid being lied to, but you can also have Passive Wisdom if know there's an undead amongst a crowd but you don't know who. Just keeping a general eye out. This is using it as a repeated task.

You can also use Passive Poisoner's Kit to determine how good a character is at detecting a poison they would have had to know how to make to detect. Honestly, its a bit of a stretch to use it like this, but entirely within the rules.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Right. So you have given everyone 'reliable talent' rogue class feature in investigation and perception.

Yep.

 

[Weiley31]

I'm actually all for the Passive Scores.

 

[Maxperson]

The passive rules as written don't make sense. They represent the average score of a task done over and over again, which means that the PC is rolling 1s, 2s, 19s, 20s, etc. as he walks and the passive score is just the average of all the rolls the PC is constantly making. However, it makes no sense for the PC to always be rolling the average at every moment that's important and needs to check the passive skill.

For that reason, I don't use passive skills.