Undispellable spells
- Thread starter Xeoble
- Start date
Mordane76
First Post
I'll tell you how his DM takes it... 
The spell allows his character to maintain adult status until he reaches the end of his life span, so basically the character looks young until he reaches the end of this natural life, then dies of natural causes just like everyone else. We used a few different spell seeds to accomplish this, none of which allowed a duration of instantaneous.
So... at this present moment, I'd say no to an instantaneous duration, simply because IIRC, when seeds are mixed, you use the shortest duration of the seeds, and there aren't any factors that allow you to change the duration to instantaneous.
Hypersmurf's idea, however, sounds a lot more plausible and allowable. I'm a big fan of difficult-to-dispel magic, and the idea of breakable magic within given parameters. I am not, however, a fan of undispellable spells: even mythallars from FRCS CAN be broken, and even the mechanics for epic spells state that the rules don't change for dispelling.
The spell allows his character to maintain adult status until he reaches the end of his life span, so basically the character looks young until he reaches the end of this natural life, then dies of natural causes just like everyone else. We used a few different spell seeds to accomplish this, none of which allowed a duration of instantaneous.
So... at this present moment, I'd say no to an instantaneous duration, simply because IIRC, when seeds are mixed, you use the shortest duration of the seeds, and there aren't any factors that allow you to change the duration to instantaneous.
Hypersmurf's idea, however, sounds a lot more plausible and allowable. I'm a big fan of difficult-to-dispel magic, and the idea of breakable magic within given parameters. I am not, however, a fan of undispellable spells: even mythallars from FRCS CAN be broken, and even the mechanics for epic spells state that the rules don't change for dispelling.
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Mordane76
First Post
Creating a massive wall of stone and making a energy barrier or life-extending spell undispellable are two different matters. I can handle the creation effects of wall of stone (which I can hitherto disintegrate if I feel the need), but I think the search for the unbreakable magic spell modification is a touch twinkish.
So... wall of stone doesn't on it's face drive me nuts... I think most of the wall of... spells are pretty cool. I'm still trying to figure out why wall of ice allows for SR, though...
So... wall of stone doesn't on it's face drive me nuts... I think most of the wall of... spells are pretty cool. I'm still trying to figure out why wall of ice allows for SR, though...
Basically you need an epic level spell cast from a 86th level wizard and 9 level 20 wizards just to duplicate the Timeless body ability from Monk, Druid and a couple Prestige Classes? Sounds not really epic to me, more like a waste of ressources.
(I'd either create a custom epic feat for this effect, or a custom prestige class.)
(I'd either create a custom epic feat for this effect, or a custom prestige class.)
Mordane76
First Post
I don't remember when a Monk gets Timeless Body, but yes, that was the ruling I made. In game terms, unless the character is unnaturally aged, it really doesn't come into play, which I way I didn't push costs on the topic. The race the character is playing is fairly long-lived in the first place, so I don't know if age will come into play at any real point in the campaign.
The way the spell was developed involved ritual, so that the Spellcraft DC would be fairly low, but also because I think spells of this nature (life/age/time altering magicks) should be rituals.
The character is not epic at the present moment; the party is just crossing 7th level. Most of the characters are probably a little underpowered as far as magic goes; we have an expert/fighter/cleric in the party, and a wilder (broad-ranging arcanist homebrew class), but most of the party isn't decked to the lapels in magic items. This age-halting effect isn't too big a deal to me, so I let it in -- I don't really see it coming into play in the near future, unless I center a campaign around the foci, which I might just do at a later date...
The way the spell was developed involved ritual, so that the Spellcraft DC would be fairly low, but also because I think spells of this nature (life/age/time altering magicks) should be rituals.
The character is not epic at the present moment; the party is just crossing 7th level. Most of the characters are probably a little underpowered as far as magic goes; we have an expert/fighter/cleric in the party, and a wilder (broad-ranging arcanist homebrew class), but most of the party isn't decked to the lapels in magic items. This age-halting effect isn't too big a deal to me, so I let it in -- I don't really see it coming into play in the near future, unless I center a campaign around the foci, which I might just do at a later date...
kreynolds
First Post
Mordane76 said:
The immortality of a deity, however, is permanent, does not go away in an antimagic field, cannot be removed or dispelled. Deities also aren't but a few steps away from mortals, so it shouldn't be that hard to do yourself, and with epic magic, it simply isn't difficult at all, as very little is outside your reach. An 86th level caster should have no problem becoming immortal. Seriously, it's not a big deal. He can't die of old age. No biggie, but can you just imagine how much fun you could have with that?
Anyways, I'm not trying to convince you to allow Xeoble his spell (though I am curious if the reason you said "no" to his idea was because of what you have mentioned in this discussion thus far), rather I'm trying to figure out what the problem would be with an Immortality spell in the first place.
Mordane76
First Post
I don't think I have a problem with an Immortality spell; I just don't see a way to do it with the rules presented so far for Epic magic (I also don't have the book with me right now to better shape my argument, so all this is off the top of my head). That doesn't mean I'm not willing to sit down and figure out additional material with which to do it, but right now his character is 7th level, so I'm just gonna let it slide right now.
The big problem I have is making such a spell unbreakable; if there is even one way the spell can be broken, I'm more likely to say, "Sure -- that sounds kosher," but if a player wants magick that can't be undone short of divine intervention, then no -- I'm not buying that. Instantaneous duration spells normally have fairly short-lived effects, save creation spells, but once you create something with them, it can be broken or disintegrated normally. From a balance standpoint, unbreakable spells are "broken." From a literary standpoint, I can't think of any instances of unbreakable spells in good fantasy works -- there's ALWAYS a way to break the spell (some god-awful-horribly-nasty-death-inducing quest), and that's usually the basis of a good book.
The big problem I have is making such a spell unbreakable; if there is even one way the spell can be broken, I'm more likely to say, "Sure -- that sounds kosher," but if a player wants magick that can't be undone short of divine intervention, then no -- I'm not buying that. Instantaneous duration spells normally have fairly short-lived effects, save creation spells, but once you create something with them, it can be broken or disintegrated normally. From a balance standpoint, unbreakable spells are "broken." From a literary standpoint, I can't think of any instances of unbreakable spells in good fantasy works -- there's ALWAYS a way to break the spell (some god-awful-horribly-nasty-death-inducing quest), and that's usually the basis of a good book.
