Undispellable spells

[Mordane76]

Life Spell Seed and the Spell at Hand

The way I interpreted it, the Life seed exists to give life to the death, and to give a semblance of life and intelligence to inanimate objects. The Fortify seed allows you to extend a specific age category. The Ward seed stops bad things from happening to you. The Life seed normally requires the ability to cast epic spells as a divine caster -- that was the only requirement I partially backed off, because of the nature of divine magic in the homebrew.

Since the Life seed doesn't specifically entail itself as a means by which to extend a person's life, I went on a mental creative safari for seed mixture that I thought would do what Xeoble and I wanted it to do. When I returned from this safari, this is what I came up with for the spell.

The reason the DC and mechanics are important to me, as a DM, is because this is a homebrew world, and I intend to keep using it, even after these characters are dead or retired. So, if I allow a spell in once, I have to consider it might pop up again. That's the main reason I'm a stickler -- also, because I like to do things by the book if we haven't developed a house rule that works better for all involved.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Life Spell Seed and the Spell at Hand

The Fortify seed allows you to extend a specific age category.

I agree, but that's not Immortality. That's merely extending your lease on life. I also think it was a terribly poor example of an epic spell seed in that sidebar. Only 1 extra year? No way. Note that its a whole lot easier, and far cheaper, to become a lich and live forever than it is to use the example in that sidebar. Not only does a lich truly live forever, but they also get lots of really cool powers.

Anyway, I understand you now. We just have a difference of opinion on what Immortality is.

 

[Mordane76]

I agree -- I think there were some really canon magical considerations that got overlooked in ELH, such as immortality or even simple vast life extension. Overall, however, I like the basic mechanics of the spell seeds; right now, however, I don't have to consider their usage as a commonplace part of my setting (because my players aren't powerful enough to be using them on even an occasional basis, other than backstory creation elements), so I haven't sat down and considered some of the more pertinent issues and limitations of the system. Also, this thread doesn't encompass those issues and limitations, and a thread in House Rules might be better suited for that discussion.

Most of the undeath options are fairly easy to accomplish, but they all have the drawback of being evil creatures. The only solid exception to that rule so far as been the baelnorns in Monsters of Faerun; luckily, my homebrew doesn't have liches. We have other undeath options that are similar, but nope... no liches...

 

[kreynolds]

Also, this thread doesn't encompass those issues and limitations, and a thread in House Rules might be better suited for that discussion.

Yes and no. As per the original question, its fine here. As per the Immortality question, that's definately house rule material.

Most of the undeath options are fairly easy to accomplish, but they all have the drawback of being evil creatures.

Not true. There is such a thing as a good lich.

The only solid exception to that rule so far as been the baelnorns in Monsters of Faerun

And the Archlich, both of which are merely subcategories of the good lich.

luckily, my homebrew doesn't have liches.

Homebrew isn't an applicable argument in a rules discussion. The bottom line is that it is easier to become a lich, a power immortal undead creature, than it is to use epic magic to add a decade or so to your lifespan. The fact that your homebrew setting doesn't have liches at all does not put the less useful epic level life extending magic in a better light. It merely means that you now only have one option for immortality, and its a poor option compared to what you could have.

Perhaps we should open a thread in House Rules for an Immortality spell?

 

[Mordane76]

I find that the the absence of certain options in my campaign allows me to not directly consider them...

In a more general stance, however, I think that a thread to discuss both the limitatons in a more broad stance in this Forum, as well as a thread to discuss the development of Immortality magicks in House Rules, would both be contribution-worthy ideas that I would enjoy discussing.

On a more direct note -- has the archlich been reprinted/converted into 3E yet? I've seen Lich, Demilich, Alhoon, and Baelnorn, but I haven't seen the Archlich yet (unless I missed it somewhere). And I will concede -- in general application of D&D, it is much easier to become undead, and hence immortal, and gain all kinds of crunchy powers than it is to extend one's life under the present ELH spell seeds. Most undeath options are available from the get-go, save a precious few (vampire by most arguments must be at least 5th level, and lich, which one must wait till one reaches 11th level, IIRC).

I don't have too many problems with most of the other spell seeds, save a few points of contention about what I see as undue limitations set on the applications of seeds, but those could simply be page-number concerns (WotC forced to cut some options in the release due to page count limitations). I still think there is a lot of room for expansion of the seed system, and would love to see even a small release in support of the epic magic system. Also... I'm game for trying some expansion myself, kreynolds...

 

[kreynolds]

On a more direct note -- has the archlich been reprinted/converted into 3E yet? I've seen Lich, Demilich, Alhoon, and Baelnorn, but I haven't seen the Archlich yet (unless I missed it somewhere).

Heh. See previous post.