Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Cleric, Druid, Wizard Options

In another new Unearthed Arcana (these things are coming out fast right now!) the cleric receives a new Divine Domain option: the Twilight Domain; the druid gains a new Druid Circle option: the Circle of Wildfire; and the wizard gains a new Arcane Tradition feature: Onomancy, the magic of true names.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Having a truenamer with you at mid to high levels who uses ally targetting spells with your party is generally extremely dangerous and possibly annoying for this type of reason. Make it a multiplanar or even a monoplanar campaign (where you start in and never leave the same plane but its not the prime material) and it is without any sort of exaggeration extremely likely to be worse than suicidal. Wizards, warlocks, clerics, several other things and ESPECIALLY OUTSIDERS hearing you or your ally(ies)' true name(s) or even hearing evidence that you have advanced knowledge of true naming is REALLY REALLY BAD.

 

[cbwjm]

I've seen far too many fantasy name generators that spit out names with far too many consonants and not enough vowels, many really don't sound like something that anyone would name their child.

I think the bolded bit is especially important. Sure, I can find tons of free name lists and name generators on the internet with no difficulty, but most of the names they give me are not going to be good fits for characters in whatever setting I’m playing in. They’re usually randomly generated, and usually kind of suck.

 

[Mistwell]

Having a truenamer with you at mid to high levels who uses ally targetting spells with your party is generally extremely dangerous and possibly annoying for this type of reason. Make it a multiplanar or even a monoplanar campaign (where you start in and never leave the same plane but its not the prime material) and it is without any sort of exaggeration extremely likely to be worse than suicidal. Wizards, warlocks, clerics, several other things and ESPECIALLY OUTSIDERS hearing you or your ally(ies)' true name(s) or even hearing evidence that you have advanced knowledge of true naming is REALLY REALLY BAD.

Right, which is why it's so awesome. You don't ever HAVE to use it on an ally - but there may be emergency times you will want to. And then there is risk in doing so. I suspect most of the time you'd be doing it within a protected area, like a rope trick. But when the chips are down you may risk it - and that should be an interesting choice and added layer to the game.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Right, which is why it's so awesome. You don't ever HAVE to use it on an ally - but there may be emergency times you will want to. And then there is risk in doing so. I suspect most of the time you'd be doing it within a protected area, like a rope trick. But when the chips are down you may risk it - and that should be an interesting choice and added layer to the game.

To me it mostly sounds like just a really horrible idea to take a truenamer with you on a multiplanar adventure unless you absolutely refuse to tell them your true name and even then its dicey. They are like sending a bleeding elephant into shark infested waters. The thing is strong but defenseless in such a situation generally and will call attention from said sharks who will be able to most likely completely eviscerate it without injuring themselves. The only real fix for this situation is to allow them to take two homebrew feats at some point (as two of their feats) that allows them to disguise true names somehow at a penalty and also disguise their magic as indiscernable up to a decent dc check from arcane magic even by magical or ability related means. If the campaign has realism in it anything short of this is ceazy suicidal or worse im a multiplanar campaign.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yeah, it seems that way. To me, a Wildfire Spirit should be barely contained and just dangerous to be around.

The fire elemental pet damages everything around it when it uses it's teleport ability, so there is an element of that.

For me, I'm used to fireballing druids from 3rd edition/Pathfinder, so as far as I'm concerned this is just restoring something that 5e lost.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

example: true namer without these feats goes on a multiplanar adventure that takes them to baator at some point. Does a bit of offensive truename magic a few times in front of some minor devils. One's an imp who used to be an elven wizard or something. Knows a liiitle bit about true namers (very likely) IMMEDIATELY flies like the wind invisibly to the greater devil (who knows a good deal about true name magic as many greater devils do both because its useful for writing infernal contracts and because greater devils fear true name magic in the hands of mortals as its used against them and is part of why they learn a little about it as self defense against thise who have it as awareness is the best defense) who is immediately above his own master in a bid to get out from his current masters thumb (very likely) and tells him exactly where you are whis with you and any other info he can as well as any non consual use of a true name he thinks you used which he percieves to be an infraction of any sort of infernal law that you may have broken. You have spent a few days in baator and now youve already done goofed enough to catch the attention of a greater devil probably way over your party cr limitations. You will probably be met by a couple pitfiends in a couple hours armed with at least one wand of silence just for good measure. Truenamers and multiplanar campaigns dont mix. Now you have a great example of why.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

To me it mostly sounds like just a really horrible idea to take a truenamer with you on a multiplanar adventure unless you absolutely refuse to tell them your true name and even then its dicey. They are like sending a bleeding elephant into shark infested waters. The thing is strong but defenseless in such a situation generally and will call attention from said sharks who will be able to most likely completely eviscerate it without injuring themselves. The only real fix for this situation is to allow them to take two homebrew feats at some point (as two of their feats) that allows them to disguise true names somehow at a penalty and also disguise their magic as indiscernable up to a decent dc check from arcane magic even by magical or ability related means. If the campaign has realism in it anything short of this is ceazy suicidal or worse im a multiplanar campaign.

The whole subclass is a can of worms for the DM unless it is nailed down to a specific setting designed for it.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

cast spells granted by pelor or helm and you just have simple hatred on your hands. Show competant use of true names though and you immediately are viewed as a special kind of dangerous by infernal (or other outsider) police. Basically.

 

[fobia]

example: true namer without these feats goes on a multiplanar adventure that takes them to baator at some point. Does a bit of offensive truename magic a few times in front of some minor devils. One's an imp who used to be an elven wizard or something. Knows a liiitle bit about true namers (very likely) IMMEDIATELY flies like the wind invisibly to the greater devil (who knows a good deal about true name magic as many greater devils do both because its useful for writing infernal contracts and because greater devils fear true name magic in the hands of mortals as its used against them and is part of why they learn a little about it as self defense against thise who have it as awareness is the best defense) who is immediately above his own master in a bid to get out from his current masters thumb (very likely) and tells him exactly where you are whis with you and any other info he can as well as any non consual use of a true name he thinks you used which he percieves to be an infraction of any sort of infernal law that you may have broken. You have spent a few days in baator and now youve already done goofed enough to catch the attention of a greater devil probably way over your party cr limitations. You will probably be met by a couple pitfiends in a couple hours armed with at least one wand of silence just for good measure. Truenamers and multiplanar campaigns dont mix. Now you have a great example of why.

Was thinking about this as well. But in different terms.
First of all, there is nothing in the PHB or MM, that would give you direct control over, for example a fiend.

In the case of the devils you'd need their name on an amulet to gain full control. The name is not the problem, but the sacrifice of (typically) somebody the PC loves isn't something that'll occur too often. Either by player's choice or by DM's intervention.
Demon Binding too requires blood of the innocent etc. etc. otherwise there is nothing to be found except that you gain some measure of control over the fiend, like in the case with devils.

Now what is that measure of control you get?
Say you cast Summon Greater Demon.
That demon get's disadvantage for its saving throw against your summoning spell if you get its name, that's it so far. It still gets to make a save at the end of each of its rounds, if it wants to.
Arguably in the case of this spell, you could just order it to tell you its name. No onomancy required. Would fit thematically though.
The same goes with Infernal Calling.

There's not too much you can do except give them disadvantage against a saving throw at this point. The whole shtick with the power of names and gaining control seems not as threatening as depicted in the MM when expressed in mechanical terms.

Also a thing about wording. You "mentally learn" the name of the creature you're using Extract Names on.
As long as you don't intend to keep that creature alive after either casting Bane upon it or use a Resonant Utterance, it won't matter. If you intend to keep it alive you can either choose to not speak its name until a point where you need the name. It won't know.
Afaik it's unclear whether any kind of creatures have knowledge of their true name. They might know OF true names, but not their true name. At least with humanoids on the material plane that seems to be the case. Wouldn't rule that differently for fiends.
So even by speaking a fiend's true name, it could be argued that it doesn't know that it name has been spoken (as part of the bane spell for example).

Now in your example of Baator. I guess a devil would think twice about getting the news spread around that there's an onomancer on its layer. How would that devil know, other than having it's name extracted? That imp/devil will not have it's name changed upon promotion.
You could turn your argument around and say devils have way too much to lose if somebody knows their name and will likely be very careful whenn approaching that problem. And the onomancer is a valuable resource to many a devil.

There is also no official ruling about how much devils know from their past life. Lemures don't remember squat. That's in the book. So as long as you didn't get your infernal rank through selling your soul, that's not a real danger. The elven wizard who very likely knows about onomancy but is now an imp example is a bit hypothetical.

I'd say as long as you play it smart, which as a wizard, you probably should be. It's fine.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

"Was thinking about this as well. But in different terms.
First of all, there is nothing in the PHB or MM, that would give you direct control over, for example a fiend."

Hmmm. Might be misremembering and i dont know for sure which edition your perspective is from but i was thinking from an admittedly 3/3.5 perspective. Are spells like planar binding and gate not in phb? There are several others too but im more thinking those are in spell compendium and others. A devils true name is relevant to those. Further, its not necessarily what you can do that is the primary reason you would be on the fiend's list of concerns. Its what you could easily be able to do later after someone else gets their hands on you or you learn just a luttle more. Someone with true name magic is essentially someone whos a partially readymade threat for one of their enemies. Also, infernal contracts arent really covered in dmg and phb but true names are commonly used to further empower them whenever possible. Also i wasnt talking about the player making said contracts. I was actually talking about the fiend. Information like true names and how to use them are regulated like plutonium and uranium in such a society.

"In the case of the devils you'd need their name on an amulet to gain full control. The name is not the problem, but the sacrifice of (typically) somebody the PC loves isn't something that'll occur too often. Either by player's choice or by DM's intervention.
Demon Binding too requires blood of the innocent etc. etc. otherwise there is nothing to be found except that you gain some measure of control over the fiend, like in the case with devils."

Again. Other people with means potentially using you are the primary reason you would be threatening to them. Also controlling them is not the only thing for them to fear. So many possibilities. Further, what you can do with the name and the implements necessary are variable.

"Now what is that measure of control you get?
Say you cast Summon Greater Demon.
That demon get's disadvantage for its saving throw against your summoning spell if you get its name, that's it so far. It still gets to make a save at the end of each of its rounds, if it wants to.
Arguably in the case of this spell, you could just order it to tell you its name. No onomancy required. Would fit thematically though.
The same goes with Infernal Calling."

This is another thing affected by ingame context and dorect magical control is not the only way to gain a lot of control over a fiend via a true name or knowledge of true naming. Consider this scenario. You summon a demon or devil. You get them to do whatever you say because you have given knowledge of how to trigger some nasty events involving the dissemination of a true name and a few other elements if your whims arent met and you show proof of the plan being absolutely loaded and ready to fire without showing enough of your hand for the outsider to so anything about it. You now have a powerful toady for at least a little while who is a bit afraid to screw you over and may try once or twice but will stop when you strike back with just a couple of your more minor prepared plans for said subterfuge. The fact that you could be a clever little thorn in their side if they arent helpful goes a long way.

"There's not too much you can do except give them disadvantage against a saving throw at this point. The whole shtick with the power of names and gaining control seems not as threatening as depicted in the MM when expressed in mechanical terms."

The majority of the power in a true name is its potential within the lore. And realistic psychology. For hard canonical plot reasons it gets results even though its through something soft like rp. Even if not every character is sharp enough to know how a fiend will not let a potential major source of problems like this just go bumbling around without being addressed aggressively.

"Also a thing about wording. You "mentally learn" the name of the creature you're using Extract Names on.
As long as you don't intend to keep that creature alive after either casting Bane upon it or use a Resonant Utterance, it won't matter. If you intend to keep it alive you can either choose to not speak its name until a point where you need the name. It won't know.
Afaik it's unclear whether any kind of creatures have knowledge of their true name. They might know OF true names, but not their true name. At least with humanoids on the material plane that seems to be the case. Wouldn't rule that differently for fiends.
So even by speaking a fiend's true name, it could be argued that it doesn't know that it name has been spoken (as part of the bane spell for example)."

This is a fair point. Most beings within the multiverse have no clue what their true name is. But the ones who do will guard it jealously.

"Now in your example of Baator. I guess a devil would think twice about getting the news spread around that there's an onomancer on its layer. How would that devil know, other than having it's name extracted? That imp/devil will not have it's name changed upon promotion.
You could turn your argument around and say devils have way too much to lose if somebody knows their name and will likely be very careful whenn approaching that problem. And the onomancer is a valuable resource to many a devil."

An imp is actually pretty smart. They are definitely going to leave as quickly as possible so they are going to assume (with good reason) that due to lying low and not being the primary obvious threat in an encounter their true name is probably secure. They are just going to immediately get the baator out of luskin and tell the devil there is someone running around with true name competancy and loose lips.

"There is also no official ruling about how much devils know from their past life. Lemures don't remember squat. That's in the book. So as long as you didn't get your infernal rank through selling your soul, that's not a real danger. The elven wizard who very likely knows about onomancy but is now an imp example is a bit hypothetical."

Actually it is official that a good portion of imps remember past life knowledge. It is also official that generally devils are actually rewarded with recovering more complete advantage as they advance in the heierarchy. Its not entieely consistant but the higher up the chain the more is remembered. And its a completely different story in many cases where someone was rewarded with becoming a devil directly as they frequently keep it all. Again not always.

"I'd say as long as you play it smart, which as a wizard, you probably should be. It's fine."

A smart wizard with knowledge of true naming woild likely not use true name relevant knowledge in hell at all BECAUSE hes smart though. Unless done with the blessing of baator. Thats a whole different kettle of nupperiboos.