Unearthed Arcana Domain Wizards

[Thanee]

Are specialists really more powerful? What have I missed?

What's so hard about dropping a single school for becoming a divination specialist (or even two schools, if you prefer something else)?

The one extra spell per level is a huge benefit!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

No offense, but you can't tell, the power of a book by browsing on the shelf.

I'm pretty sure I can, in most cases anyways.

But it's not only powerlevel, also many of the stuff (like paragon races and whatnot) just didn't seem very useful to me (that doesn't mean, others may not like it ).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Olive]

I'm pretty sure I can, in most cases anyways.

Really? Well, who am I to disagree...

But it's not only powerlevel, also many of the stuff (like paragon races and whatnot) just didn't seem very useful to me (that doesn't mean, others may not like it ).

That really is fair enough, and I can see why. Personally I'm still a bit surprised tho, as the variety in the book is pretty imense. There's stuff I'd never use (elemental races), stuff I probably won't use (the racial apragon classes), stuff I can't wait to use (incantations) and stuff I already have used (racial bloodlines).

 

[glass]

What's so hard about dropping a single school for becoming a divination specialist (or even two schools, if you prefer something else)?

The one extra spell per level is a huge benefit!

So which school(s) do you give up so easily?

And if one extra spell per level is such a big deal, how come sorcerers (who effectively get two extra spells per level most levels) aren't considered massively overpowered.


glass.

 

[Li Shenron]

Isn't that the intent of the whole book?

When I browsed through it, I was constantly shaking my head and quickly put it back. The only part, which seemed reasonably useful to me, was the stuff about crafting. Not a book I would like to spend money on.

I don't think the book has the intent of powering up the game. All the class variants seem quite balanced IMO.

I don't absolutely think that Domain Wizards are overpowered. But they have a benefit compared to the standard wizard (with no specialization) without having a single drawback. That's the point of my complaint, that if you use the Domain Wizard, you have to drop out of the game the standard wizard with no specialization. That's the only variant class which has an advantage without a drawback.

We can discuss a comparison between domain wizards and specialization wizards just as we did a lot on these boards between generalist wizards and specialization wizards.

My point is having a variant class (while the others are not) which is based on one advantage with no drawbacks is kind of admitting that the generalist wizard was weak.

 

[Thanee]

So which school(s) do you give up so easily?

Necromancy, sometimes Evocation, in some cases Enchantment (altho I personally like it) or Illusion.

The other four schools are too good to give up.

And if one extra spell per level is such a big deal, how come sorcerers (who effectively get two extra spells per level most levels) aren't considered massively overpowered.

That's a very silly comment, but I will answer nonetheless.

Because sorcerers do not have the same amount of spells known, do not have access to higher level spells one character level earlier and do not gain bonus feats. Also because their caster stat does not grant direct secondary benefits (skill points).



Bye
Thanee

 

[Umbran]

My point is having a variant class (while the others are not) which is based on one advantage with no drawbacks is kind of admitting that the generalist wizard was weak.

No, it doesn't. If they replaced the wizard in the core rules with the domain wizard, that would be such an admission. But giving an optional class variant in a non-core book only suggests that some people might find it more suited to the game they want to run.

It is important to remember that the fine details of balance are campaign dependant, and it is thus reasonable to give some optional variants of lesser and greater power to help DMs cover imbalances they create themselves.

As an example - If your game covers a great many different elements, you might find specialists well-balanced with normal wizards. But if your game focuses strongly on one thing (like combat) you might find some well-constructed specialists have a leg up on their non-specialized brethren, since in a more focused game, the player can expect to do with a narrower range of available spells. The Domain wizard might then even the scales a bit.

 

[Silveras]

No, it doesn't. If they replaced the wizard in the core rules with the domain wizard, that would be such an admission. But giving an optional class variant in a non-core book only suggests that some people might find it more suited to the game they want to run.

It is important to remember that the fine details of balance are campaign dependant, and it is thus reasonable to give some optional variants of lesser and greater power to help DMs cover imbalances they create themselves.

As an example - If your game covers a great many different elements, you might find specialists well-balanced with normal wizards. But if your game focuses strongly on one thing (like combat) you might find some well-constructed specialists have a leg up on their non-specialized brethren, since in a more focused game, the player can expect to do with a narrower range of available spells. The Domain wizard might then even the scales a bit.

Exactly. The more varied the types of activity in the campaign, the less the Sorcerer overshadows the Wizard.

On a side note, it is worth noting that this particular variant seems to be in the Forgotten Realms (Races of Faerun) as the benefit of a Regional Feat. Two of them, one is the Fire mage from Calimshan and I think the other is Tethyrian (book is not at hand), essentially are the Fire and Shadow domains available with your 1 Regional Feat. So I am using that approach in my world, and attaching a "Tradition Trained" regional feat to the Arcane Domains. That, I think, lets the generalist wizard remain a viable option.

 

[Tessarael]

Domain wizards are intended to be on a par with specialist wizards. The 3.5e team says specialists were much too powerful in 3e and remain too powerful in 3.5e. So it isn't surprising that you find them overpowered -- they're intended to be (unfortunately).

Hmmm, I don't quite agree with this explanation.

The 3.0E specialist Wizard was too good compared to a general Wizard. Thus the 3.5E specialist Wizard has another opposing school, with the exception of Diviner (particularly as Diviner's spells are not as powerful offensively). However, it remains the case that 3.5E specialist Wizards are better in many situations than general Wizards.

Now regardless of all these comparisons between generalist and specialist Wizards ... Clerics are still considered the most powerful class in both 3.0E and 3.5E. In that sense, specialist Wizards were never too powerful.

General Wizards may be considered a little weak by some. If you introduce Domain Wizards into your campaign, that is a replacement for generalists, but there is still a point (if you allow it) to people taking specialists (one extra spell per day, but opposition schools).

Just my thoughts ...

 

[elijah snow]

Can someone explain the Domain Wizard in a little more detail? Is it essentially a wizard with access to a cleric domain and the restrictions described in this post?

A Domain Wizard is some kind of lesser specialization: it is actually "more" specialized in the sense that it concentrates on 10 spells instead of a whole school. Since it loses versatility compared to school specialization, it has other benefits: those 10 spells are known for free, and there is no forbidden school. But with this last thing... what is the reason to be a normal non-specialized PHB wizard? :\

What am I missing? This seems to be the only variant that makes something core 100% unconvenient.