Jester David
Hero
If they have bows, they don't need to worry about getting to melee. Or being attacked really.
Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana - Mass Combat Rules
My first read through, and I like it.
I like the configurations, the commander abilities, and the objectives especially.
As for solos....solos are always the problem, always will be...especially spellcasters.
As another poster mentioned...the "10 fireballs a minute" issue is present in many versions of mass combat rules I've read. I think it will always come down to some level of hand waving...unless you just allow a few wizards to beat entire armies (which in some campaigns may be just fine...but not in others).
You could scale the time back down to 6 seconds, but that creates its own problems. And having entire battles end in 30 seconds is a bit of an issue as well.
I like the configurations, the commander abilities, and the objectives especially.
As for solos....solos are always the problem, always will be...especially spellcasters.
As another poster mentioned...the "10 fireballs a minute" issue is present in many versions of mass combat rules I've read. I think it will always come down to some level of hand waving...unless you just allow a few wizards to beat entire armies (which in some campaigns may be just fine...but not in others).
You could scale the time back down to 6 seconds, but that creates its own problems. And having entire battles end in 30 seconds is a bit of an issue as well.
Kobold Avenger
Legend
For battles with 1000s of combatants, I'm guessing there could eventually be a way of making units act like characters and making rounds take 10 minutes.
Kobold Avenger
Legend
I'm been thinking of a few scenarios that could use these rules:
The more conventional 2 armies and a siege over a castle, the attackers have siege weapons. The stands are likely going to be militia and veterans. In this one I'd be curious how well siege weapons work with these mass combat rules.
A gang war/riot in the middle of a city, stands of thugs and commoners involved. This one could probably have very small units of only 2 to 4 stands, and probably have a lot of difficult terrain from buildings except for a the streets down below.
The PCs make an alliance with a half-orc Khan to attack the ruins inhabited by a necromancer and his minions. The PCs with orcs, berzerkers and Mongol horsemen vs skeletons and zombies and elite stands of ghouls and wights.
A small-scale naval battle, units I guess would individually be ships and their crew. While most of it may be vehicle combat, boarding actions would take place, even if a ship is like a 1 x 2 or 3 squares on that scale.
The more conventional 2 armies and a siege over a castle, the attackers have siege weapons. The stands are likely going to be militia and veterans. In this one I'd be curious how well siege weapons work with these mass combat rules.
A gang war/riot in the middle of a city, stands of thugs and commoners involved. This one could probably have very small units of only 2 to 4 stands, and probably have a lot of difficult terrain from buildings except for a the streets down below.
The PCs make an alliance with a half-orc Khan to attack the ruins inhabited by a necromancer and his minions. The PCs with orcs, berzerkers and Mongol horsemen vs skeletons and zombies and elite stands of ghouls and wights.
A small-scale naval battle, units I guess would individually be ships and their crew. While most of it may be vehicle combat, boarding actions would take place, even if a ship is like a 1 x 2 or 3 squares on that scale.
I am trying to figure out how to create a balanced mass combat with these rules.
Battlesystem says use the stats of one creature for the stand of 10. Cool.
So I plan on using the Challenge 1/8 MM guards as the mercenary infantry. Say 20 stands (200 infantry)
Versus, initially, Challenge 1/4 goblins.
So if I want a mathematically 50/50 wag (wild a** guess) of ether side winning, how many goblins?
And later on, when they run into the ogre army (Challenge 2) how many stands of ogres should there be for an equal fight?
I would really hate to have them lose their keep and the province because I misjudged the battle.
Of course, once I determine how to develop equal fights, I can mod them to make it harder or easier based on the situation etc.
Battlesystem says use the stats of one creature for the stand of 10. Cool.
So I plan on using the Challenge 1/8 MM guards as the mercenary infantry. Say 20 stands (200 infantry)
Versus, initially, Challenge 1/4 goblins.
So if I want a mathematically 50/50 wag (wild a** guess) of ether side winning, how many goblins?
And later on, when they run into the ogre army (Challenge 2) how many stands of ogres should there be for an equal fight?
I would really hate to have them lose their keep and the province because I misjudged the battle.
Of course, once I determine how to develop equal fights, I can mod them to make it harder or easier based on the situation etc.
Are there solos in this fight?
None planned for the initial infantry versus goblins.
The PEL encounter building system might work well here. PEL stands for player equivalent level and was an attempt by [MENTION=6780929]Gobelure[/MENTION] to simplify encounter building. It eliminates the increasing multiplier for additional units by introducing a steadily increasing scaled value for higher CR creatures. My encounter builder that I have posted to EN World calculates encounter difficulty both by the DMG method and by PEL.
Each CR1/8 is worth 2/3 PEL. Each CR1/4 is worth 1 PEL. Each CR 2 is worth 4 PEL. Mixing and match is fairly straightforward at that point. 20 CR1/8 guards are 13 1/3 PEL. 13 CR1/8 Goblins would be roughly equivalent at 13 PEL. 3 CR 2 ogres would be 12 PEL.
That should be enough to get you started with something that should be roughly equal.
I ran a one off using the mass combat rules last week. Everyone had fun, but we pretty much agreed that we needed to have a better grasp of the rules before we tried again. It did not help that there were 8 of us, so I gave each player 1 solo and 3 stands so that time did not get away from us.
I threw together 4 heroes from our table when we played Legacy of the Crystal Shard. I made them level 8. Each of the heroes had 3 stands of CR 1/8 to 1/2 units with him. The undead army consisted of Akar Kessell with 3 stands of zombies, Vaelish Gant with 3 stands of skeletons, a solo frost giant, and a lich solo with a stand of shadows, specters, and something else.
Combat was fairly straightforward as we were trying things out. To simplify initiative, we just went around the table. The small unit size (3 stands and a solo) meant that units were devastated pretty easily by area effect spells. The frost giant was probably the most effective combatant because it could lob rocks and decimate units even with the disadvantage from long range. Fewer units with more stands probably would have worked better, but I wanted the units to be fairly agile and give each player control over a unit's destiny. I think next time I would run this with fewer players than eight.
I threw together 4 heroes from our table when we played Legacy of the Crystal Shard. I made them level 8. Each of the heroes had 3 stands of CR 1/8 to 1/2 units with him. The undead army consisted of Akar Kessell with 3 stands of zombies, Vaelish Gant with 3 stands of skeletons, a solo frost giant, and a lich solo with a stand of shadows, specters, and something else.
Combat was fairly straightforward as we were trying things out. To simplify initiative, we just went around the table. The small unit size (3 stands and a solo) meant that units were devastated pretty easily by area effect spells. The frost giant was probably the most effective combatant because it could lob rocks and decimate units even with the disadvantage from long range. Fewer units with more stands probably would have worked better, but I wanted the units to be fairly agile and give each player control over a unit's destiny. I think next time I would run this with fewer players than eight.
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