Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Returns to Monthly With Some Revised Subclasses

the fighter’s Sharpshooter subclass was, by far, the least popular

No one in their right mind liked that abomination. A terrible concept from the start.

 

[bganon]

Flurrying with Kensei weapons would be very OP without some kind of drawback. They can two-hand a longsword for d10 damage, which would be 3x d10+Dexmod attacks right at 3rd level, far outstripping any other class.

The defensive Path of the Kensei benefit seems set up as a choice. The Kensei gets to either:

1) do a little more damage than most monks, by using a versatile martial weapon: one 1d10+dexmod attack and one 1d4+dexmod martial arts attack (or two extra attacks with flurry, all of this is at level 3)
2) do a little less damage than most monks, but gain +2 AC without having to use a bonus action: gain +2 AC for a turn and make two 1d4+dexmod attacks (or three with flurry, again at level 3)

At early levels they basically get +1 dpr vs other monk subclasses or +2 AC/-2 dpr. Later on the tradeoffs change around a bit due to martial arts damage die increases, but they basically always have a dpr advantage over other subclasses as long as they make attacks with their kensei weapon.

Maybe it doesn't seem like much, but +2 AC without having to burn the bonus action is a pretty big deal for a monk - they have so many other uses for bonus actions.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Now, if your complaint is that it's functionally the only ability they get at this level, then yes, I fully agree. Best case, they use something like a longsword in two hands for 1d10 damage; this is only +1 damage more than the quarterstaff they were already probably using. They can also sort of flurry with ranged attacks, which is cool, but not really much; it's just making their ranged about as good as their melee. So, when the ability is functionally +1 damage or -2 damage and +2 AC, I can see the reason someone would complain.

I don't think that's the complaint most of us are making. Our complaint is that the Kensei is the "Sword Saint", the guy whose bond with his weapon is so strong he needs no other weapon, or even armor. That idea is not being well supported by these mechanics however good they may or may not be.

 

[Thurmas]

I like this Favored Soul more then the last. At least it brought some form of wings back. I wish it would approach the cleric spells and automatic cure wounds differently.

I like a domain spell approach, but I don't see any reason why it has to be tied to the Cleric Domains. Just give the class a list of domains to choose from in a similar format to the Circle of the Land Druid. They can be separated by alignment (lawful spell group, chaotic spell group, etc), by concept (war, fey, healing, etc), or by deity (Bane, Mystra, Helm, etc), or anything else.

I still think Light, Med Armor and simple weapon Prof is needed.

 

[Lanliss]

Flurrying with Kensei weapons would be very OP without some kind of drawback. They can two-hand a longsword for d10 damage, which would be 3x d10+Dexmod attacks right at 3rd level, far outstripping any other class.

The defensive Path of the Kensei benefit seems set up as a choice. The Kensei gets to either:

1) do a little more damage than most monks, by using a versatile martial weapon: one 1d10+dexmod attack and one 1d4+dexmod martial arts attack (or two extra attacks with flurry, all of this is at level 3)
2) do a little less damage than most monks, but gain +2 AC without having to use a bonus action: gain +2 AC for a turn and make two 1d4+dexmod attacks (or three with flurry, again at level 3)

At early levels they basically get +1 dpr vs other monk subclasses or +2 AC/-2 dpr. Later on the tradeoffs change around a bit due to martial arts damage die increases, but they basically always have a dpr advantage over other subclasses as long as they make attacks with their kensei weapon.

Maybe it doesn't seem like much, but +2 AC without having to burn the bonus action is a pretty big deal for a monk - they have so many other uses for bonus actions.

Flurry of Blows is 2 unarmed attacks, so it would be 1d10+dex mod, and two 1d4+dex mod attacks.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Flurrying with Kensei weapons would be very OP without some kind of drawback. They can two-hand a longsword for d10 damage, which would be 3x d10+Dexmod attacks right at 3rd level, far outstripping any other class..

Maybe I'm missing something. Where are you getting this from? Your bonus attack (and second bonus attack if spending a ki) use your monk damage, which is a d4 at third level. Not counting flurry (because you'd only have 3 total ki, and most monks spend ki on other things besides just flurry), you've have one attack at 1d10+DEX, and one bonus at 1d4+DEX.

*Edit* Ninja'd

 

[hejtmane]

Maybe I'm missing something. Where are you getting this from? Your bonus attack (and second bonus attack if spending a ki) use your monk damage, which is a d4 at third level. Not counting flurry (because you'd only have 3 total ki, and most monks spend ki on other things besides just flurry), you've have one attack at 1d10+DEX, and one bonus at 1d4+DEX.

*Edit* Ninja'd

Yep one more dpr than monk using spear or qtr staff oh the tragdey

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[MoonSong]

• Favored Soul: So, your sorcerer gets to use cleric spells. And you can use sorcery points to be a better healbot. That's really all there is to this one. This subclass used to give you a bunch of flavors depending on your choice of deity; now it's pure vanilla. Borrrring. Bring back access to domain spells. Or Channel Divinity. Or something where a Favored Soul of Bane is different from a Favored Soul of Sune.

Ideally every favored soul should be as different from each other as possible. Just like ideally sorcerers should be as different from each other as possible. I'll take what I can get, baby steps. Having all favored souls with enforced cure wounds isn't the best possible case, but, at least by having free reign over the cleric list they can be even more different from each other than all other official sorcerers can aspire to. Free cure wounds is a small price to pay in order to get all of the capabilities that the cleric list brings. Like summons, long-term effects, wards, divinations... Besides healing feels like something sorcerers should be able to do -not all of them of course- and something I would want to do anyway.

I like this Favored Soul more then the last. At least it brought some form of wings back. I wish it would approach the cleric spells and automatic cure wounds differently.

I like a domain spell approach, but I don't see any reason why it has to be tied to the Cleric Domains. Just give the class a list of domains to choose from in a similar format to the Circle of the Land Druid. They can be separated by alignment (lawful spell group, chaotic spell group, etc), by concept (war, fey, healing, etc), or by deity (Bane, Mystra, Helm, etc), or anything else.

The problem is that it adds yet another negative degree of liberty, the class is already quite constrained and suffers from cookie cuter syndrome. Compulsory cure wounds isn't as bad, IMO. Yes all favored souls will have it, but the similarities will end there. The real value of the subclass resides on the sheer amount of options you have, that is where you get to be an individual or the living embodiment of a deity, and it helps a lot, because having a set of preapproved lists would be quite limiting (bonus spells are out of the equation so they would bring less flexibility not more. From experience with the first version of the favored soul, I can tell you the domains available put a heavy strain on your character concept, and that is with them as bonus spells without them freebies, they are even more limiting).

I still think Light, Med Armor and simple weapon Prof is needed.

I also wish for it, but at the same time I would feel like less of a munchkin when asking a DM to allow it. I know from experience it isn't really unbalancing, but it looks overpowered from the outside.

 

[Thurmas]

The problem is that it adds yet another negative degree of liberty, the class is already quite constrained and suffers from cookie cuter syndrome. Compulsory cure wounds isn't as bad, IMO. Yes all favored souls will have it, but the similarities will end there. The real value of the subclass resides on the sheer amount of options you have, that is where you get to be an individual or the living embodiment of a deity, and it helps a lot, because having a set of preapproved lists would be quite limiting (bonus spells are out of the equation so they would bring less flexibility not more. From experience with the first version of the favored soul, I can tell you the domains available put a heavy strain on your character concept, and that is with them as bonus spells without them freebies, they are even more limiting).

See, I don't see it as limiting in a bad way. Custom domains similar to Druid Land Circles allows you to customize your character in manner consistent with your god. If you want access to the entire cleric spell list, you should have to be a cleric. It's actually limiting in a good way.

 

[MoonSong]

See, I don't see it as limiting in a bad way. Custom domains similar to Druid Land Circles allows you to customize your character in manner consistent with your god. If you want access to the entire cleric spell list, you should have to be a cleric. It's actually limiting in a good way.

I beg to differ, by giving the favored soul the whole list, you are giving it 95% of domains possible. If we had a limited -emphasis on limited 'cause books have limited space- set of domains, we have artificially limited the amount and variety of concepts we can cover with the same subclass. If you want more, you are at the mercy of DM fiat. Besides it not only covers champions of the gods, but descendants of the gods and celestials.

 

[Xeviat]

I don't think that's the complaint most of us are making. Our complaint is that the Kensei is the "Sword Saint", the guy whose bond with his weapon is so strong he needs no other weapon, or even armor. That idea is not being well supported by these mechanics however good they may or may not be.

I'm aware. And I said the +2 AC is still "using your weapon).


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