Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Revenant Subrace, Monster Hunter, and Inquisitive

There's a new Unearthed Arcana up from WotC's Mike Mearls, and this month it looks at Gothic Options for your D&D game, supplementing the themes of the recently released Curse of Strahd. The Revenant is a new sub race which can be applied to any existing race, the Monster Hunter is a fighter archetype, and the Inquisitive is an archetype for rogues who excel at solving mysteries. "This month, Unearthed Arcana takes a look at a few new character options appropriate to gothic horror.The revenant subrace provides an interesting way to bring a character back from the dead—a useful option if you’ve lost a character in the mists of Barovia. The Monster Hunter and the Inquisitive are two new archetypes for the fighter and rogue, respectively, well suited to the challenges of Ravenloft or any other gothic horror campaign."

There's a new Unearthed Arcana up from WotC's Mike Mearls, and this month it looks at Gothic Options for your D&D game, supplementing the themes of the recently released Curse of Strahd. The Revenant is a new sub race which can be applied to any existing race, the Monster Hunter is a fighter archetype, and the Inquisitive is an archetype for rogues who excel at solving mysteries. "This month, Unearthed Arcana takes a look at a few new character options appropriate to gothic horror.The revenant subrace provides an interesting way to bring a character back from the dead—a useful option if you’ve lost a character in the mists of Barovia. The Monster Hunter and the Inquisitive are two new archetypes for the fighter and rogue, respectively, well suited to the challenges of Ravenloft or any other gothic horror campaign."

Screen Shot 2016-04-04 at 14.42.17.png

Find the 3-page PDF here!
SaveSave
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Azurewraith

Explorer
Issue with the feature being to common is you get to the point where it's just a constant static bonus similar to picking and favoured enemy in 3.5 knowing you were only going to fight x
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Mathias Severin

First Post
Issue with the feature being to common is you get to the point where it's just a constant static bonus similar to picking and favoured enemy in 3.5 knowing you were only going to fight x

True enough. Maybe all this boils down to is it should have been called Witch Hunter. Then thematically it would be fine.
 

Which got me thinking, now I haven't read the new Strahd book, but isn't it kinda weird that monstrosities aren't on the list... and maybe kinda weird fey are?
Monstrosities are generally "of this world" and are straightforward combat threats a lot of the time. It looks like the monster hunter's list is not just extraplanar threats, but also the "monsters" you see in the gothic horror genre.

There are some good-aligned fey, but in gothic horror, the Lords and Ladies are often inscrutable, alien, and very careless of the lives of mortals. And those are the ones who might be working with you.
 

Arilyn

Hero
Care to say why they don't work, or are you just going to sit there screaming your head off about it?

Revenants don't work because:

They are not properly explained, especially to do with the undead issue. Revenants that are not undead? What does that mean?
Replacing sub-race options is a good idea, but unfortunately some of the 5e races have no sub-race option
Being indestructible until a goal is reached could be problematic, and needs a lot more in the way of examples and explanations
Being indestructible kind of changes the flavour of the game...especially in Ravenloft. Is the GM going to allow more than one character to return as a revenant? That could get strange...

The idea is a good one, but needed to be better thought out and explained.
 


Saeviomagy

Adventurer
The problem (now that battle master is out there) is that yes, you need to do something unique with fighter archetypes. Problem is when you do, people just say, "Why don't you just add those as maneuvers to the BM?" When the whole reason for doing new subclasses in the 1st place is a for a play experience (ie rules) to be different than the BM. Having had a go at designing 5 fighter archetypes myself it is quite frustrating for it to always come back as 'just built it with a BM."
Then either come up with something that's not "the BM, but with a different maneuver list that is incompatible with the existing one", or embrace it and make alternative abilities for the BM at each level instead of trying to make something incompatible. Like I said - there's still work to be done making the BM a monster hunter.

The main thing this monster hunter would seem to show us is that the current fighters are sorely lacking in non combat ability: the BM gets a tool proficiency at the same time the monster hunter gets 2 skills, a language and some ritual spellcasting.
 

Connorsrpg

Adventurer
Then either come up with something that's not "the BM, but with a different maneuver list that is incompatible with the existing one", or embrace it and make alternative abilities for the BM at each level instead of trying to make something incompatible. Like I said - there's still work to be done making the BM a monster hunter.

The main thing this monster hunter would seem to show us is that the current fighters are sorely lacking in non combat ability: the BM gets a tool proficiency at the same time the monster hunter gets 2 skills, a language and some ritual spellcasting.

My point is that some players want to perform things similar to the BM but using a different way/system. Not talking so much to th monster hunter here. I agree, don't just bang BM manuevers and same superiority dice mechanic. I like to CHANGE the mechanic, but again, get sick of hearing, just add maneuvers to BM.
 

JonM

Explorer
Nothing in the race description implies that a revenant loses the requirement to sleep, breathe etc. I'm guessing that you're getting tripped up by previous editions' beings with the same name and thought that this 5e version was undead?
Yes, they are in previous versions. And 5th (look it up: Monster Manual, page 259). And other games that have undead. And folklore. And movies. And television. And books. And comics (Crow, anyone?). And... You get the idea. The bottom line is that most people with even the tiniest bit of knowledge about this sort of thing are going to assume undead. So, if they aren't undead, using the name "revenant" was just plain silly. I suspect that they really are supposed to be undead (again, see MM, page 259) - Mike just forgot to note it.

Ignoring the whole undead thing, for a moment, though, the sub-race is badly balanced, since there was never an attempt, in the player's book, to balance the race-to-subrace power ratio between the various races. It wasn't really needed, at the time. This wasn't a serious problem, originally, as long as the whole package worked, but it does become a problem when you start replacing one of the two parts with something else. In math terms, if A + B (race one) more or less equals C + D (race two), you can only change both B and D to E, and keep your balance, if A and C are more or less equivalent (which they very much aren't, for D&D's races, some of which don't even have a B or a D). In less obscure non-mathematical game terms, add revenant to an elf or dwarf and you still get most of the parent race's goodies. Add it to a human and all you get, from the parent race, are the two ability score points (which everyone gets) - nothing else. I'm guessing that this is why half-elves and half-orcs got left out - Mike realized that the lack of sub-races created a problem for them, so a different system would have to be used. He couldn't just do what he did with humans, or they would look pretty much the same as humans. But he couldn't let them keep some of their abilities, or humans would look ripped off. So, no half-elves or half-orcs, "for now." But he probably figured that he couldn't really ignore humans, since pretty much everyone pictures revenants coming from human stock (again, the Crow - not to mention numerous MM pictures, from various versions - probably contributes to this image).

The rules, as written, are also asking for trouble, within the game. In campaigns with high attrition, a PC group could quickly turn into a pack of revenants - unless the DM lets only one player do it, in which case accusations of playing favorites are inevitable. A few restrictions as to the sort of situations that create revenants, the sort of people who become revenants (probably linked to willpower, alignment, etc.), and so forth might have helped here, but I guess Mike didn't have time to add that to his three page article, over the course of two months.

I also see possible trouble with "Wolverine syndrome" - i.e. characters in stories with regeneration always seem to get abused the most, 'cause... well... they can be (without ending the story). In this case, I can see that, at least in some cases, the revenant character is going to end up coming back from the dead on a regular basis, either because he is a tempting target for the DM or because he gets used as a 10 foot pole by the rest of the team or because he knows he is unkillable, so, you know, what the heck? In a game with less combat and other regular life-threatening issues, this might be less of a problem - but in D&D? Anyway, this is not exactly a problem with the article, I know, but it is a possible problem with the whole idea. A problem which, again, was not addressed, at all.

In all, it seems to me that this suffers from a typical UA problem: interesting idea, weak implementation.
 

JonM

Explorer
So it's not that they don't work, it's that they are clearly material meant to be playtested and edited by DMs then.
If by "playtest" you mean, "take the bare kernel of an idea that Mike tossed out, without much forethought, and re-work it completely, from the ground up, until it barely resembles its origin, knowing full well that it is vanishingly unlikely that the so-called playested material will ever appear in an actual book"... then, yes, that would be a fair assessment.

Sorry if I'm sounding snarkier than usual, but I'm getting kind of tired of "it's just a playtest" being used as an excuse for poorly thought out game design. A good playtest starts with reasonably good material. And it absolutely requires critical commentary, which, I can't help but notice, tends to immediately get pounced on, when posted here.
 


Remove ads

Remove ads

Top