Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Revisits Psionics

The latest Unearthed Arcana from WotC revisits some psionic rules! “Shine with the power of the mind in this installment of Unearthed Arcana! Today we revisit several psi-themed options that we released in the past few months. Studying your feedback on those options, we’ve crafted this new collection of subclasses, spells, and feats, found in the PDF below.“

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[Maxperson]

But, psionics in D&D already HAS VSM. They are called Display's or Ectoplasm, but, they are RIGHT THERE!

No, it never has. Repeating a wrong statement won't make it correct. Even 5e psionics by RAW doesn't have them.

 

[Hussar]

So, it's okay that psions need something (PSP's) in order to be used, and it's okay for those manifestations to be completely clear who is doing it, so long as we don't need bat guano, we're good?

 

[Lucas Yew]

So, it's okay that psions need something (PSP's) in order to be used, and it's okay for those manifestations to be completely clear who is doing it, so long as we don't need bat guano, we're good?

Sure, for me at least (I would compromise that one relatively easy).

Edit: Maybe I'm missing something from your context, so further reading it is...

 

[Maxperson]

So, it's okay that psions need something (PSP's) in order to be used, and it's okay for those manifestations to be completely clear who is doing it, so long as we don't need bat guano, we're good?

Power points are like spell slots. Neither are a component.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure, for me at least (I would compromise that one relatively easy).

I think most or all of us in these threads have said that they are okay with visuals and such.

 

[dwayne]

I always liked the psionics was different camp, and magic could not effect it and it could not effect magic. It was a 2nd edition kind of thing, i remember players fearing psionic creature due to hard to defend and kill, unless you had a psion with you. Now it's just a weird magic ability, monks have ki and i would think that is on the same level. But i use apex, and that fills that area very well, but if i was going to want a system put out, i would look to make it a partly skill based one. Also with much more on the fly options altering damage out put, to area, and all parts of the effect, even an over charge option.

 

[Hussar]

I guess I'm just a bit obtuse. Not really seeing the difference at the end of the day.

Wizard - wiggles fingers, says words, effect happens.

Psion - smells like lemon pie, says words, effect happens.

I guess I got sidetracked in the discussion about groups being able to identify casters by their components and how you couldn't identify a psion since psions didn't have components. But, since everyone is groovy with psions being just as identifiable as casters - just with slightly different flavor - I guess I really don't see what the big deal is.

Wizard casts Charm Person, wiggles a finger and says a word (it's a VS spell) and target is potentially charmed and everyone knows who cast a spell.

Psion manifests Charm Person and there is a Ding Dong sound in everyone nearby's head (Mental Effect 3e) and the target is potentially charmed and everyone knows who manifested the power.

Yeah, not really seeing much of a difference here.

 

[Maxperson]

I guess I'm just a bit obtuse. Not really seeing the difference at the end of the day.

I will put it in bold.

Wizard - wiggles fingers, says words, effect happens. - Spell cannot happen without wiggles and words.

Psion - smells like lemon pie, says words, effect happens. - Power happens regardless.

Only one of those is a requirement.

I guess I got sidetracked in the discussion about groups being able to identify casters by their components and how you couldn't identify a psion since psions didn't have components.

That wasn't the discussion. The discussion was.

Us: Psions don't have V, S, M.

Them: We ignore V, S, M anyway, so no difference.

Us: Then how do you ID casters?

The failure to identify wasn't about Psions, but normal casters.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I'm going to try to head off the looming 10-page argument about what the side discussion about components was about. It looks like some people thought it was about identifying the caster of a psionic effect, and some though it was only about whether you needed to be able to talk and have hands free.
The moral for everyone I think is just to pay more attention to what someone is saying and why rather than trying to argue for the sake of it.

I think that we have established that psionics shouldn't need verbal, somatic, or minor material components? But that there would be indicators that they are casting a psionic spell/ability that replicates a spell?

Are there any spells (or equivalent effects ) that have expensive material components that a psion should have access to?

 

[Parmandur]

The moral for everyone I think is just to pay more attention to what someone is saying and why rather than trying to argue for the sake of it

What fun is that...?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think that we have established that psionics shouldn't need verbal, somatic, or minor material components? But that there would be indicators that they are casting a psionic spell/ability that replicates a spell?

It's that what WotC are going for with their psionic soul? It just needs a bit of clarification, especially how it interacts with "subtle spell".

I guess I don't see the fuss over "minor" material components - in our games almost everyone uses an spellcasting focus anyway, and an spellcasting focus is the same as a psionic focus, is it not?

 

[Parmandur]

It's that what WotC are going for with their psionic soul? It just needs a bit of clarification, especially how it interacts with "subtle spell".

I guess I don't see the fuss over "minor" material components - in our games almost everyone uses an spellcasting focus anyway, and an spellcasting focus is the same as a psionic focus, is it not?

It makes a pretty significant difference for the Psi Knight who has a sword and shield.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It makes a pretty significant difference for the Psi Knight who has a sword and shield.

Wut?!

Psi Knight can't cast spells, they have no need of any kind of component or focus, nor can their abilities be dispelled or counterspelled.

 

[Aldarc]

Though I am sure it would be controversial, I would like to see WotC experiment with a psion and psionic subclasses that use Ki. Let's take the psion and put it on the other end of the monk, but make its ki focused on being a caster. It could also help reinforce the monk's "mystical/magical" abilities and contextualize its magic.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Though I am sure it would be controversial, I would like to see WotC experiment with a psion and psionic subclasses that use Ki. Let's take the psion and put it on the other end of the monk, but make its ki focused on being a caster. It could also help reinforce the monk's "mystical/magical" abilities and contextualize its magic.

I think a monk psi subclass is on the cards, but I can't see it coming close to meeting the demands of those people demanding the psion, the whole psion, and nothing but the psion.

 

[Aldarc]

I think a monk psi subclass is on the cards, but I can't see it coming close to meeting the demands of those people demanding the psion, the whole psion, and nothing but the psion.

I'm not saying that I want the psion attached to the monk as a monk subclass, but, rather, I would be interested in seeing WotC make a psion class using monk ki points, but as a caster. Ki effectively also serves as "spell points" so it's not as if we don't have a spell point using class. A psion using Ki points would also mean that it's not necessarily different for the sake of being different, since it's also using Ki points. Ki and some of their abilities that monks can spend Ki on also exist in that strange place of "is it magic?" and "it works in an anti-magic field." It would also still allow WotC to lean (at least partially) into the whole "mystic" thing. People who don't necessarily like psionics? It's a like if a monk was a full caster instead of a brawling class.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I'm not saying that I want the psion attached to the monk as a monk subclass, but, rather, I would be interested in seeing WotC make a psion class using monk ki points, but as a caster. Ki effectively also serves as "spell points" so it's not as if we don't have a spell point using class. A psion using Ki points would also mean that it's not necessarily different for the sake of being different, since it's also using Ki points. Ki and some of their abilities that monks can spend Ki on also exist in that strange place of "is it magic?" and "it works in an anti-magic field." It would also still allow WotC to lean (at least partially) into the whole "mystic" thing. People who don't necessarily like psionics? It's a like if a monk was a full caster instead of a brawling class.

You run into the same problem as the 4 elements monk - ki points increase linearly, whereas spell points increase geometrically. Thus a ki point caster will always fall behind a spell point caster.

If you make your ki points increase geometrically to match an arcane caster, then what you have just described (right down to the brawling subclass) is almost exactly The Mystic - the psionic subclass WotC designed three years ago and was roundly rejected by the community.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I'm not saying that I want the psion attached to the monk as a monk subclass, but, rather, I would be interested in seeing WotC make a psion class using monk ki points, but as a caster. Ki effectively also serves as "spell points" so it's not as if we don't have a spell point using class. A psion using Ki points would also mean that it's not necessarily different for the sake of being different, since it's also using Ki points. Ki and some of their abilities that monks can spend Ki on also exist in that strange place of "is it magic?" and "it works in an anti-magic field." It would also still allow WotC to lean (at least partially) into the whole "mystic" thing. People who don't necessarily like psionics? It's a like if a monk was a full caster instead of a brawling class.

Since the difference between ki and psionic power points is, honestly, rather contrived anyway, I wouldn't mind if they decided they are the same thing and made the Psion class use "ki". The fluff would of course make it clear that some Psions see an affinity between their source of power and that of Monks, whereas others see subtle distinctions and prefer to call it <other stuff>, but mechanically it is the same thing.

Of course that does mean they have to take into account multi-classing with Monks rather than multi-classing with casters.

 

[Aldarc]

If you make your ki points increase geometrically to match an arcane caster, then what you have just described is almost exactly The Mystic - the psionic subclass WotC designed three years ago and was roundly rejected by the community.

I think that the reasons for that rejection amounted to more than simply spell points, but a lot of the everything else, namely - as they say in their UA article - that it could do TOO MUCH and encroach on other classes's territory a little too much.

(right down to the brawling subclass)

Huh? I don't think that you were following what I was saying there. I said nothing of a brawling subclass. I'm describing the monk as a brawler class that uses ki.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think that the reasons for that rejection amounted to more than simply spell points, but a lot of the everything else, namely - as they say in their UA article - that it could do TOO MUCH and encroach on other classes's territory a little too much.

It could easily have been trimmed back if it had met with a less overwhelmingly negative response, and doing everything better than every other class is exactly what the 2nd edition psion that people are so fond of did.

And anyway, your own suggestion includes no significant differences to the Mystic.

Nope, The truth is it was rejected because the community is deeply divided over what it wants from psionics, and no side is prepared to give an inch.