Unearthed Arcana SRD?

[JPL]

I think the real issue is, will this stuff all be on the web so I can read it for free? And if so, when?

If WotC doesn't do it, some enterprising soul could type 98% of it and post it for us.

Me, I can't type.

The good news is that I think my wife failed to get me anything for Valentine's Day, so I can just steer her to the FLGS tomorrow. That's the plan.

 

[Alzrius]

I think the real issue is, will this stuff all be on the web so I can read it for free? And if so, when?

In a word: No. The book's contents are Open, but there won't be an online document containing them.

If WotC doesn't do it, some enterprising soul could type 98% of it and post it for us.

I think that technically it'd have to be a product to do that, but that's a small barrier to overcome. That said, hopefully decency would stop someone from doing that; there have been other products that were 98% OGC, and I have yet to see them distributed freely by some outside party.

 

[Ylis]

I have a question related to this: where is it you guys get your information? Is there a WotC forum on their site or something? Or another forum that I don't know about? Sorry to ask here, but I typically don't have a lot of time to dig through tons of forums trying to find the one that holds actual info (though I think I hit jackpot with this one, since everyone here seems to know what's going on in the RPG world, rather than just spouting rumors).

Anyway, I didn't know that UA was going to be OGC...that actually makes me kind of happy, since what I've riffled through thus far seems interesting and worth expansion

 

[d20Dwarf]

There are mailing lists and archives at

www.opengamingfoundation.org

 

[Mark]

Yeah. I didn't mention that because while I'm relatively clear on d20 License issues, the nature of an OGL product is still rather unclear to me, so I thought it best not to talk about something I don't understand.

I'm not sure you are as clear on it as you believe.

The d20 System Trademark License currently (and under all previous incarnations) requires the use of the Open Game License.

You cannot speak of the requirements of the d20 System Trademark License without implicitly speaking of the requirements of the Open Game License, as well, as things currently and formerly stand.

Some companies can strike a separate agreement with WotC to use the d20 System Trademark without the d20 System Trademark License or the Open Game License and, indeed, WotC itself uses that trademark without the license in most cases, but to use the d20 System Trademark License, one must be using the Open Game License as an underlying requirement as outlined in the d20 System Trademark License Guide.

The d20 System Trademark License, in effect, is an enhancement that allows a certain level of compatibility to be shown by products that wish to display the trademark, and it comes with a list of restrictions as outlined in the d20 System Trademark License Guide.

Currently, and previously, all products published under the d20 System Trademark License must, by default, be or have been published simultaneously under the Open Game License.

Am I making sense to you? I don't mean to lecture but it is best to clear these things up when they are noticed lest someone come away with unintended misinformation.

 

[Alzrius]

I'm not sure you are as clear on it as you believe.

I'm relatively confident I am, more on this below.

The d20 System Trademark License currently (and under all previous incarnations) requires the use of the Open Game License.

This, I knew. I understand that the d20 License is a subset of the OGL.

What I don't understand is the nature of games that are OGL but not d20, especially when they use d20 mechanics quite closely, such as Arcana Unearthed or The Book of Erotic Fantasy.

Some companies can strike a separate agreement with WotC to use the d20 System Trademark without the d20 System Trademark License or the Open Game License and, indeed, WotC itself uses that trademark without the license in most cases, but to use the d20 System Trademark License, one must be using the Open Game License as an underlying requirement as outlined in the d20 System Trademark License Guide.

a la White Wolf and Ravenloft, if I understand correctly.

The d20 System Trademark License, in effect, is an enhancement that allows a certain level of compatibility to be shown by products that wish to display the trademark, and it comes with a list of restrictions as outlined in the d20 System Trademark License Guide.

But do purely OGL products that use d20 mechanics needs to adhere to the d20 STL at all? That's what vexes me.

Am I making sense to you? I don't mean to lecture but it is best to clear these things up when they are noticed lest someone come away with unintended misinformation.

So far, so good. Don't worry about the tone of what you're saying, I'm not so proud as to confuse someone kindly taking the time to help with condescension.

 

[Mark]

In a word: No. The book's contents are Open, but there won't be an online document containing them.

There (assumably) won't be an online document containing that Open Content produced by WotC is what you mean to say, I believe. This has not been confirmed, to my knowledge, by anyone at WotC, so I wouldn't take bets one way or another.

...there have been other products that were 98% OGC, and I have yet to see them distributed freely by some outside party.

You cannot freely distribute a product by another company without their permission to do so. You can, however, distribute any and all Open Content that is released under the Open Game License, provided that you do so in a format that you, yourself or as a publishing company, have produced or comissioned to be produced, provided it follows the terms of the Open Game License.

Simply put, if you find a way to produce a product under the Open Game License that contains any or all Open Content ever released under the Open Game License, and that product is a viable, marketable product by virtue of its format, it is fair game to do so.

Decency has nothing to do with it and, quite frankly, it is the nature of the Open Game License to encourage the spread of Open Game content by any and all means available to the community.

There are currently two efforts, albeit meeting with limited success thus far, to establish libraries of Open Content. One of those efforts is being heralded by Ryan Dancey, the progenitor of the Open Game License and the d20 System Trademark License.

One could even argue that the "Pocket Players Handbook" produced by Mongoose Publishing is a case in point of just such a scenario.

 

[Alzrius]

There (assumably) won't be an online document containing that Open Content produced by WotC is what you mean to say, I believe.

You cannot freely distribute a product by another company without their permission to do so. You can, however, distribute any and all Open Content that is released under the Open Game License, provided that you do so in a format that you, yourself or as a publishing company, have produced or comissioned to be produced, provided it follows the terms of the Open Game License.

You know that's what I meant.

 

[Mark]

I'm relatively confident I am, more on this below.

Okie doke.

This, I knew. I understand that the d20 License is a subset of the OGL.

More accurate to say that products produced under the d20 System Trademark License are a subset of products produced under the Open Game License. And it isn't a matter of semantics, it is a matter of propely delineating between discussing the licenses and discussing the products produced under either or both of the licenses.

What I don't understand is the nature of games that are OGL but not d20, especially when they use d20 mechanics quite closely, such as Arcana Unearthed or The Book of Erotic Fantasy.

Producing products under the OGL without using the d20STL allows for one to ignore the restrictions that are inherent in the d20STL Guide. Some companies might be producing a product in which they wish to add character generation rules, or rules that show how to apply experience to a character, or even might contain artwork of an explicit nature, and thus would be a no-no under the d20STL.

There are a myriad of restrictions in the d20STL Guide, if one counts all of the terms that must be left untouched (such as how "AC" is defined, etc.).

Even the slightest infraction can result in the loss of the license, in perpetuity, and the requirement that all stock be destroyed, as well as requiring the company to track down all existing copies of any work produced and requesting that the current owner of that stock destroy those copies.

It could get quite expensive for an offending company.

While WotC might limit their response to an infraction based on the level of that infraction, they retain "sole discretion" as to how far they enforce their license and it is arguably in their best interest to enforce it as strictly as possible or not enforce it at all, lest a lawsuit crop up that sets a precedent as to how strictly they should be allowed to enforce it.

a la White Wolf and Ravenloft, if I understand correctly.

I am not privy to the terms under which Ravenloft is published but an example I can cite would be KenzerCo's Kalamar which uses the d20 trademark and has a separate agreement with WotC that allows this.

But do purely OGL products that use d20 mechanics needs to adhere to the d20 STL at all? That's what vexes me.

Nope. They do not need to adhere to anything more than the requirements outlined in the Open Game License if they are using Open Game content.

So far, so good. Don't worry about the tone of what you're saying, I'm not so proud as to confuse someone kindly taking the time to help with condescension.

Thanks. I have a ton of respect for you, and what I read in posts you make to these boards, and I wouldn't want my sharing what I know with you to be confused for anything less than respectful.

 

[Mark]

You know that's what I meant.

I know, and you know, but I wouldn't be surprised three weeks from now for someone else to post that they heard somewhere, or read somehwere, that... and, dollars to donuts, it will be coupled with the phrase, "but I was doing it for free...so it's not like it was costing them any money..."