Unearthed Arcana Varient Rogue - Sneak Attack for Fighter Feats

[Nonlethal Force]

So you would allow the rogue to have a 'virtual BAB' for the purposes of qualifying for fighter feats? So the rogue would qualify gor Weapon Finesse (+1 BAB prereq) at first level?

I don't get that impression from the post you quoted. I understood the words to mean that if a feat on the fighter list says: "Prereq: BAB +1," then the rogue variant is elligible for it when they have a legitimate BAB of +1. I.E. second level.

However, I also read that post to mean that for a feat like Weapon Specialization which says: "Prereq: Figter level 4," then the rogue variant would not be allowed to take that feat until they had legitimately earned 4 full levels of honest to pete fighter.

 

[wildstarsreach]

So you would allow the rogue to have a 'virtual BAB' for the purposes of qualifying for fighter feats? So the rogue would qualify gor Weapon Finesse (+1 BAB prereq) at first level?

No, I would only go on his actual base attack. Improved Critical requires a BA of +8. A rogue would have to be 11th level to take this feat.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Should you use fighter feat progression or rogue sneak attack progression to get the fighter feats? I also voted no.

Yes, you would trade sneak attack damage for fighter feats. So you would get them at 1, 3, 5, ect. Not the fighter, 1, 2, 4, 6, ect. I would still limit this to only 1/2 of their sneak attack bonus dice as fighter feats rounded down. Also specific feats that say fight X level would still be the province of the fighter such as weapon specialization. A rogue could start out trading sneak attack at 3rd level, 7th and so on.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Yes, you would trade sneak attack damage for fighter feats. So you would get them at 1, 3, 5, ect. Not the fighter, 1, 2, 4, 6, ect. I would still limit this to only 1/2 of their sneak attack bonus dice as fighter feats rounded down. Also specific feats that say fight X level would still be the province of the fighter such as weapon specialization. A rogue could start out trading sneak attack at 3rd level, 7th and so on.

According to my reading of the actual words on p. 58 of UA, this is incorrect.

A rogue who gives up his sneak attack in order to gain bonus feats receives them on levels 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, etc as the fighter does. I am getting this from the paragraph under Other Class Variants.

A class feature gained works just as it did for its original class, including the level at which it is gained and any other effects, except as noted below.

There is no special notation on the rogue variant noted, thus the fighter bonus feats work just as they did for the fighter, including the levels at which they are gained.

EDIT: This text also means that the rogue levels do not counte for Fighter specific feats (like Weapon Specialization). Because the class abilities work just like the original class. The original fighter class had to meet the prerequisites, and one of the prerequisites for Weapon Specialization is Fighter 4. A rogue (even one who gives up sneak attack) is still a rogue. Since the class feature works the same way for the variant as the original class, the variant rogue must also meet the prerequisites. Since they are not a "Fighter X" but rather a "Rogue Variant X," they do not qualify according to my reading of the variant rule.

 

[starwed]

I'm pretty sure the OP understands what the RAW are, and is looking for advice on what would be fair and balanced. Notice the use of the word "should" rather than "would" in the question.

I think it would be better to just let them pick from any feat which seems reasonable, and keep the martial feats to the fighter.

 

[Crashy75]

I say yes. The rogue is giving up a lot to get those feats (unless the party is fighting mostly undead). And that's if he doesn't have a wand of gravestrike.

 

[Machiavelli]

The rogue does NOT give up much when he gives up sneak attack dice. He still has more skill points than any other class, Evasion (very nice), the completely unique ability to disarm well-constructed traps, Uncanny Dodge (not bad), and a selection of uniquely rogue special abilities.

Meanwhile, you would advocate giving him EVERY ability that a fighter gets? The only reasons he would not be a super-fighter that makes other fighters look terrible would be his 3/4 BAB progression and d6 hit dice. So, for 1 BAB every fourth level and 2 HP each level, he gains everything I listed above? That's insane. Given that option, I would never play a fighter again. Ever.

As is, I even think a bonus feat more than every other level is too much to trade for sneak attack dice. Not far too much, but still a little much.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Edit: First part of post voluntarily removed!

Machiavelli, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the rogue still retaining much of its rogueness even with giving up sneak attack. That is why I too have been fairly adamant in not allowing the rogue variant to have access to feats like Weapon Specialization. Because ultimately even after they give up sneak attack they're still more "roguish" than "fighterish."

 

[TheEvil]

Edit: First part of post voluntarily removed!

Machiavelli, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the rogue still retaining much of its rogueness even with giving up sneak attack. That is why I too have been fairly adamant in not allowing the rogue variant to have access to feats like Weapon Specialization. Because ultimately even after they give up sneak attack they're still more "roguish" than "fighterish."

You are indeed correct on the nature of my post. Presuming the majority of those who voted understood the question (something some of the posts cause me to doubt both for and against..), it does appear that the majority don't think qualifying for the Fighter Level X feats with variant rogue levels is a good idea. After a perusal of some of the books, I found the following Fighter only feats:

From the PHB, CW and PHB2, the only Fighter Level X feats are:
Greater Weapon Focus
Weapon Spec.
Greater Weapon Spec.
Weapon Supremacy


As short as that list is, I think I would have to agree that not getting them is a pretty small price for the variant rogue.

 

[Musrum]

I would allow a Martial Rogue Y to take Fighter X Feats.

Where a Y level Martial Rogue would have the same BAB as an X Fighter.

eg Weapon Specialisation: Fighter 4; Martial Rogue 6.