Update: Malhavoc PDFs no longer available at RPGnow (merged)

[francisca]

Don't feel left out.

Spence, I'lll post mine tonight, too. I've been swamped at home, but just came back up for air.

Thanks Henry! I'm sure I'll feel better when your review is posted, and mine is still random scribblings in my notebook.

 

[PatrickLawinger]

I really have no idea what the contract between DTRPG and the companies using it might be. I have no idea what the decision making processes were for Malhavoc and FD moving over and switching to DRM, I also don't know if this is a requirement of distribution through DTRPG.

I have a huge amount of respect for Monte and everyone at FD. I do not think that they in anyway meant their changes to reflect any lack of caring for their customers. These guys, quite frankly, are some of the nicest in this business and I think a glance at how often Monte responds to posts on his message boards and other message boards shows how concerned he is about his customers.

Mr. Lawinger, I think a large part of the "betrayal" feeling that a lot of people are having is not stemming from the print-only companies trying PDF sales for the first time, but companies such as Malhavoic and Fiery Dragon switching to DRM. That is the impression that I am getting, at any rate, and people, correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, hopefully these new-to-pdf publishers will relax eventually. But the people who supported companies already into pdf publishing (like the two mentioned above) are being "pushed to the wayside" (to quote Tsyr) by those very same publishers they have been purchasing pdfs from all this time.

 

[Vascant]

Lastly, let me see if I have this correct:
DRM security is an illusion.
DTRPG is marketing that illusional security to its clients.
This will lead to DRM being here to stay?

DRM is what a front door with a lock is to a house. It keeps honest people honest however, if you want in there is always a way.
While some salesperson would have you believe it is the answer to all your secure publishing needs any techie will tell you this does not exist. If a company felt they needed DRM before releasing any form of PDF, you should have let that company stay in the physical side of the publishing business and even then, books are scanned by the people who buy them, so are you really safe.

My real issue is this.. I feel Malhavoc Press and the like have betrayed me as a customer, very long standing customer I might add. Now, does that bother Mr Cook, who knows. It would be like subscribers to Dragon asking that Monti not write for them anymore because we have forgotten all the good things he has done for DnD and just made a snap decision without any thought to the dominos that may fall or the people it really effects. RPGNow and it's customers have supported a few of these companies that junped ship all of a sudden and I know I feel you have turned your back to me.

Just think, someone new coming into DnD and quite easily they find themselves here today and their first sight will be learning about the such companies. 85% is pretty high even if you factor in +/- 10%, thats your reputation today.. and your first impression to many. Are we wrong, no because we have a right to our opinion and believe it or not, we hold the key to success because we are the customer!

Now for something that bugs me.. "first professional site".
You are not, Period. You are not the first and you are in some cases not professional either. What you are is an a site focused to bring publishers not already in the electronic publishing business to the internet consumer. Your site looks like it has been modelled after a dark alley for shady dealings too, most drive thru's in reality atleast try to have a present store front. Reminds me of Paizo, they handle 2 of the most wide spread RPG periodicals and yet has a website that my kids could have done, actually I think they can do better. We return to the phrase of "First Impression". I read where some say little to no marketing was done for pricing, I honestly have no clue but I will say if the company seems this flawed with how it handles, treats and presents itself to the consumers then it is a fair guess to say, alot of things need to be addressed. Where as Psion stated or guessed the number of sales certain products are probably having at the moment, have you figured out how many sales you have lost?

 

[PatrickLawinger]

What makes your definition of the "average" user accurate? As you stated above, internet literate people will be strongly represented. Your definition of average contradicts that in my experience. Plus, you are neglecting that many people who will not be directly bothered by the hoop-jumping will still avoid the product because of registration requirements and big brotherism.

I don't know that the definition of "average" is accurate. How do you define average? I have 4 computers (okay, really something like 6, but one is no good and the other isn't used). Now, of my family and wife's family, let's see, the only people with more than one computer are the ones who use computers for work (wife's sister and her husband) and they essentially never "mix" machines because their respective employers own their laptops. My sisters (2), brother, parents, mother and father-in-law, and my other sister-in-law all have one active machine at home.

What I have seen seems to indicate that people believe that "average" means one computer at home.

I don't think that people actively buying pdfs are going to fall into this "average" very easily. I would guess that most have more than one machine and/or access to more than one machine. At the same time, even though I have 4 machines, I generally focus my work on only one or two, the others are for my kids to play games on, special projects, etc.

I am pretty sure DTRPG sales and customer complaints will speak volumes to them as to whether they have made the right choice. I have no idea what either will be. The company isn't even a week old, based on the people that are working there, I am pretty sure they'll make whatever adjustments they believe they need to make. Will all of us agree with those adjustments? Probably not. I am of a wait and see attitude. Personally, the number of publishers they do have on their list is a pleasant surprise to me. It means that publishers who wanted nothing to do with electronic publishing are taking an interest and giving it thought. It is an important first step.

The site is really slow for me. If I don't respond, or if my responses seem to skip right over posts on the same topic, er, well, oops ...

 

[Fiery James]

Mr. Lawinger, I think a large part of the "betrayal" feeling that a lot of people are having is not stemming from the print-only companies trying PDF sales for the first time, but companies such as Malhavoic and Fiery Dragon switching to DRM. That is the impression that I am getting, at any rate, and people, correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, hopefully these new-to-pdf publishers will relax eventually. But the people who supported companies already into pdf publishing (like the two mentioned above) are being "pushed to the wayside" (to quote Tsyr) by those very same publishers they have been purchasing pdfs from all this time.

What does that say about those company's customer-relations?

At the moment, I can't say. I can say that it doesn't look good, though.

Leaving out the new-to-pdf publishers entirely, there is a great deal of failed trust in this thread because of those publishers who previously engaged in the pdf market.

Was Fiery Dragon every really considered any sort of PDF publisher? Really?

We've never created anything specifically for PDF. The only things we ever sold on PDF were two out-of-print adventures using the 3.0 system (and, even more out-dated now, 3.0 psionics at that!) Mind you, they were both good adventures, but we made them available a year or more after the print versions had sold out.

I understand that we left RPGNow and that may have been seen as a big deal by some, but really it's a tiny amount of money (really tiny) and it's just easier for us to use one place as opposed to 2 for such small amounts (after all, who wants to get a semi-annual cheque for $10 when you can get one for $15 ?!?)

I think anyone shocked or disturbed by FDP moving is really overstating the case, as far as us as a PDF-publisher is concerned.

- James

 

[PatrickLawinger]

Just to make it absolutely clear. None of my comments or opinions here have anything to do with DTRPG, or WW/SSS. I have presented my opinions on what I believe some publishers are thinking. I am not a representative of DTRPG nor of White Wolf. While I am a writer and developer for Necromancer Games, none of the opinions and suppositions I have stated here are official positions or representations of Necromancer Games.

That said, it is time to go do a few things with my kids.

 

[Psion]

Was Fiery Dragon every really considered any sort of PDF publisher? Really?

A major player in the PDF field? No.

Was it nice to have the option to pick up some fun adventures from the finest adventure publisher that sadly doesn't turn their hand to adventures anymore (insert obligatory whine about who I really would have loved to have seen Gates of Oblivion and OSM II) without worrying about if the adventure will be there 10 years down the road so I could relive it with my buddies? You betcha!

 

[Fiery James]

A major player in the PDF field? No.

Was it nice to have the option to pick up some fun adventures from the finest adventure publisher that sadly doesn't turn their hand to adventures anymore (insert obligatory whine about who I really would have loved to have seen Gates of Oblivion and OSM II) without worrying about if the adventure will be there 10 years down the road so I could relive it with my buddies? You betcha!

Here's my catch-phrase for our 2005 plans: "Adventure-in-a-box!"

As far as Gates of Oblivion, we're thinking of scheduling 3-month periods where Todd will personally come to your house and run the adventure! Talk about having an idea that just keeps growing and growing until it's a monster, and a CR 23 at that!

- JB

 

[Dimwhit]

I understand that we left RPGNow and that may have been seen as a big deal by some, but really it's a tiny amount of money (really tiny) and it's just easier for us to use one place as opposed to 2 for such small amounts (after all, who wants to get a semi-annual cheque for $10 when you can get one for $15 ?!?)

Hey, I just bought Beyond All Reason from DTRPG yesterday, if that bumped the $15 number up for you at all!

 

[Yair]

I would just like to thank Patrick Lawinger for his cool and reasoned responses. You made it much clearer to me why some publishers chose what they chose.
So thanks.