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[UPDATED] CODENAME: MORNINGSTAR: Watch the UI Overview

Trapdoor Technologies, who are running the Codename: Morningstar Kickstarter for the electronic tools suite (launching with Pathfinder) has created a short User Interface Overview. This 2-minute silent video quickly shows you some of the functionality in the product, including character generation, party messaging, adventure browsing, product shelf, store, dice roller, and adventure creation and publishing.

Trapdoor Technologies, who are running the Codename: Morningstar Kickstarter for the electronic tools suite (launching with Pathfinder) has created a short User Interface Overview. This 2-minute silent video quickly shows you some of the functionality in the product, including character generation, party messaging, adventure browsing, product shelf, store, dice roller, and adventure creation and publishing.

The full Kickstarter is here. It has currently raised $19,000 of its $425,000 goal.

The below video has been updated with a new one which contains a soundtrack.


[video=youtube;QwHmy-J6l-0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwHmy-J6l-0&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 

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Hollow Man

Explorer
Third, I don't care if it's legal or not, no information has been conveyed to me about WHY they lost wizard's support. That sounds extremely sketchy to me. So whatever reason it was, it harmed their image to the community. At this point all I know is that something bad happened, if I don't know WHY it happened, the only thing I can look at right now is that something bad happened. It leaves a bad impression especially without reasons of explanation.

They've stated in interviews that they and WotC had a different "vision" of what the product was to be. At least to start, WotC wanted to emphasize character building, whereas Trapdoor was concentrating on the content management aspects of the software, and because they couldn't find common ground, WotC pulled out.

I've stated (more than) a few times around here that it has to be more than this, because I can't imagine that a contract was signed between the two parties where it wasn't explicitly stated exactly what Trapdoor was to deliver. It all points to bad project management, which is the all encompassing thing that prevents me from considering giving them any money up front. I don't see any evidence, especially based on the fact that they haven't scaled the project back one bit for the Kickstarter campaign, that Trapdoor has gotten any better at it. And without someone closely monitoring this, even if Trapdoor manages to astound me by raising enough money, I have little faith that they'll be able to deliver a product that is anything like what they promise.

But hey, in the end I like nice things too, so I hope they prove me wrong.

-HM
 

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WizarDru

Adventurer
I've stated (more than) a few times around here that it has to be more than this, because I can't imagine that a contract was signed between the two parties where it wasn't explicitly stated exactly what Trapdoor was to deliver.

Given WotC's historically bad efforts in this space, I'm inclined to think that yeah, it probably was not explicitly stated. We are talking about a company that has failed for 15 years to create a sustained working digital product for their customers. I still think the character generator that came with the 3E PHB was one of the best efforts, despite its numerous bugs. e-Tools and Dundjinni had potential, but then crashed and burned. The DDI character generator has always been a PITA (*shakes fist at Silverlight*). WotC has consisentely failed to deliver for years. The Virtual Tabletop being the last big failure prior to this one. I'm not really sure why they can't seem to put a project team together to make it happen (especially when third parties like Roll20 and PCGen have been able to manage it with less resources and capital), especially with Hasbro behind them

Trapdoor is making an effort to save their work, but I suspect it's in a weak enough state that it may be a lost cause. Contract or not, if they totally misread their client's intention, then the problem is equally theirs or maybe moreso.

I'm mostly annoyed because I thought WotC had finally figured this problem out and we were going to get a great product that we'd been waiting for for years. C'est la Vie.
 

Dausuul

Legend
They've stated in interviews that they and WotC had a different "vision" of what the product was to be. At least to start, WotC wanted to emphasize character building, whereas Trapdoor was concentrating on the content management aspects of the software, and because they couldn't find common ground, WotC pulled out.

I've stated (more than) a few times around here that it has to be more than this, because I can't imagine that a contract was signed between the two parties where it wasn't explicitly stated exactly what Trapdoor was to deliver.
One of the few things we do know is that Wizards didn't pay Trapdoor anything up front. No doubt there was some kind of revenue sharing plan for Dungeonscape, but it wasn't the usual kind of arrangement where you hire a contractor to write software for you.

Here's a hypothetical story. I don't claim it's true. I'm sure I have at least some of the details wrong. But it's consistent with what we've heard and the way both parties have behaved.

Trapdoor had, and has, grand visions for their software. They considered it revolutionary. They pitched it to the D&D team at WotC. The D&D team was operating on a shoestring budget (over the course of 4E, their staff was sliced down to almost nothing), and were eagerly seeking licensees. Revolutionizing gaming wasn't on the agenda, they just wanted electronic tools for 5E without having to spend a lot of money on them. Trapdoor was willing to pay its own way on development costs, and that was good enough for Wizards.

So, just like they partnered with Kobold Press to make Tyranny of Dragons, they figured on partnering with Trapdoor to make what ended up being called Dungeonscape. As such, it wasn't necessary to nail down every detail of what Trapdoor was going to build. It had to have certain basic functionality, like a character generator, but beyond that they had a relatively free hand. Trapdoor was a licensee, not a contractor; their incentive to do a good job was that if they didn't, they wouldn't make any money.

However, Trapdoor was taking a long time about delivering. Months had passed since the PHB hit the shelves, and there were no e-tools, just a crappy web beta. Gamers were annoyed. Wizards was annoyed too, and met with Trapdoor to push them to get their product out the door. Trapdoor said they weren't willing to compromise their vision and to be patient, it'd all be worth it in the end. Wizards replied that they didn't care about Trapdoor's vision, they just wanted a character builder and some DM tools, and could you nail them down and ship them, please? Trapdoor wouldn't budge. Wizards decided they no longer trusted Trapdoor to deliver, so they pulled out and set about developing their e-tools some other way. (Another possibility, not mutually exclusive with the first, is Trapdoor asked for money to finish development and Wizards said no.) Trapdoor then turned to Pathfinder as the obvious alternative to salvage the project.

Like I said, this is just one possible story based on the public information released to date, and I have no doubt at least parts of it are wrong. But I'd be willing to bet that's the rough shape of what happened. Whether Wizards was right to pull out or not, is a question of whether the software is as revolutionary as Trapdoor says and whether they can deliver on it. My instinct is to be skeptical, and I've criticized them pretty harshly over their claims. But apparently they did have something really amazing to show at Gen Con. The real shame would be if they do in fact have something revolutionary, but it fails because they can't figure out how to get it to market given their constraints. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened, or the hundredth.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Hollow Man

Explorer
I'm mostly annoyed because I thought WotC had finally figured this problem out and we were going to get a great product that we'd been waiting for for years. C'est la Vie.

Oh trust me, I blame WotC for this bungle as well. I also happen to be beyond irritated at them right now because I can't post on their forums ever since the account migration over there, where I combined my community account with my DCI account. They insist it's a big problem and they have no ETA as to when they'll fix it since work has to be done on the back end. This has to be one of the worst cases of programming mishaps and customer service failure that I've encountered in some time.

But I digress...

-HM
 

Hollow Man

Explorer
But apparently they did have something really amazing to show at Gen Con, so... I dunno. I'll have a look at the video, at least.

I saw it at Gen Con. It looked nice, but amazing? Hard to be sure. It was nice looking enough that I was looking forward to its release.

But another bungle on their part is that they took my contact information there, promising they'd get me something. I never heard a thing until right after WotC dropped them, and it was an email saying, that DungeonScape will "live on", but "It was our intention to send you a special present in the mail and I am very sorry that we weren't able to do that." Again, promises unfulfilled, even though the project would continue.

This pattern doesn't appear to be stopping anytime soon, but here's hoping.

-HM
 

Zaran

Adventurer
I just had a thought. Maybe they asked WotC for 400k to finish their project and WotC didn't have it to give. 425k is a lot of money for 5 months of programming.
 

Dausuul

Legend
I just had a thought. Maybe they asked WotC for 400k to finish their project and WotC didn't have it to give. 425k is a lot of money for 5 months of programming.
Actually it's not, considering the stated size of their staff. They have, what, eight people? When you factor in the costs of running a business (you have to have a building, keep the lights on, et cetera), plus salaries, benefits, corporate taxes, and all the rest of it, the bills add up quick. $425,000 is a lot of money for individuals, but in the business world it's--not chump change, exactly, but certainly not unreasonable for 5 months of dedicated work by 8 people.

The real problem is that they don't seem cognizant of the need to scale back their ambitions, or they simply can't conceive of how to do it. It's obvious they aren't going to hit their goal, or half their goal. They'll be lucky to get a third of the way there. If I were in charge over there, I'd sit down and look at the software as it stands. I'd figure out the absolute minimum required to get something to market, even if it's just a character builder for iPhone. Then I would assign one (1) person to executing that minimum, scrape up the money somehow to pay that person, and send the rest of the company back to doing whatever they were doing before Morningstar came up. They would have a much better shot at getting this project off the ground if they could show us something​ functional.
 

T

TDarien

Guest
One of the few things we do know is that Wizards didn't pay Trapdoor anything up front. No doubt there was some kind of revenue sharing plan for Dungeonscape, but it wasn't the usual kind of arrangement where you hire a contractor to write software for you.

Here's a hypothetical story. I don't claim it's true. I'm sure I have at least some of the details wrong. But it's consistent with what we've heard and the way both parties have behaved.

Trapdoor had, and has, grand visions for their software. They considered it revolutionary. They pitched it to the D&D team at WotC. The D&D team was operating on a shoestring budget (over the course of 4E, their staff was sliced down to almost nothing), and were eagerly seeking licensees. Revolutionizing gaming wasn't on the agenda, they just wanted electronic tools for 5E without having to spend a lot of money on them. Trapdoor was willing to pay its own way on development costs, and that was good enough for Wizards.

So, just like they partnered with Kobold Press to make Tyranny of Dragons, they figured on partnering with Trapdoor to make what ended up being called Dungeonscape. As such, it wasn't necessary to nail down every detail of what Trapdoor was going to build. It had to have certain basic functionality, like a character generator, but beyond that they had a relatively free hand. Trapdoor was a licensee, not a contractor; their incentive to do a good job was that if they didn't, they wouldn't make any money.

However, Trapdoor was taking a long time about delivering. Months had passed since the PHB hit the shelves, and there were no e-tools, just a crappy web beta. Gamers were annoyed. Wizards was annoyed too, and met with Trapdoor to push them to get their product out the door. Trapdoor said they weren't willing to compromise their vision and to be patient, it'd all be worth it in the end. Wizards replied that they didn't care about Trapdoor's vision, they just wanted a character builder and some DM tools, and could you nail them down and ship them, please? Trapdoor wouldn't budge. Wizards decided they no longer trusted Trapdoor to deliver, so they pulled out and set about developing their e-tools some other way. (Another possibility, not mutually exclusive with the first, is Trapdoor asked for money to finish development and Wizards said no.) Trapdoor then turned to Pathfinder as the obvious alternative to salvage the project.

Like I said, this is just one possible story based on the public information released to date, and I have no doubt at least parts of it are wrong. But I'd be willing to bet that's the rough shape of what happened. Whether Wizards was right to pull out or not, is a question of whether the software is as revolutionary as Trapdoor says and whether they can deliver on it. My instinct is to be skeptical, and I've criticized them pretty harshly over their claims. But apparently they did have something really amazing to show at Gen Con. The real shame would be if they do in fact have something revolutionary, but it fails because they can't figure out how to get it to market given their constraints. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened, or the hundredth.

What this fails to take into account is that Trapdoor, according to their blog posts, had a release-ready iOS app waiting to be submitted, pending only a pricing agreement. They had a deliverable product, but couldn't release it. Nobody seems to understand that, because all they saw was the, admittedly bad, web program.

The iOS app had been in development since at least march, and the core software (The Story Engine) for longer than that. The showed off the product at GenCon, and even at that stage, as I understand, it was far ahead of as far as the web platform ever got. They had people actually using it to play 4-hour game sessions. They showed it off to several podcasts. Virtually nothing bad was written about the project, from people who actually used it, prior to the opening of the web beta.

More likely, I think. Is that Trapdoor expected to have revenue from the iOS version by early to mid-October. When that didn't happen it caused personnel issues within trapdoor (I remember rumors of one of their developer's quitting - probably because he/she wasn't being paid), which stalled the development of the web and android platforms.

If lack of development progress was the primary reason WotC pulled the plug, I think that can be directly attributed to a lack of expected revenue from iOS sales. However, I think it's more likely that the real reason was an inability to reach an agreement on pricing.
 

Yeah... To my mind this still doesn't explain why they need $400k. If they had an iOS version ready for release under 5e---they should only have to do a rules change for the CharGen portion of a Pathfinder App. Now I am not a programmer---but I really, really doubt it would cost too much (or take too long) to implement a rules change in an already built digital aide platform.

Maybe they should consider breaking up their Kickstarter into smaller pieces for each portion of a digital aide. Though this might be very hard with what appears to be a very connected/enmeshed/embedded App.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Yeah... To my mind this still doesn't explain why they need $400k.

Does that matter, though? You don't need to fully understand the production costs of a product to buy it. Surely the evaluation is whether or not the pledge level is worth the reward to you? Heck, I don't care if they factoring in a bonus holiday in Hawaii as long as the cost-reward ration works for me!
 

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