D&D 5E (2014) Using 4e elements for your 5e games?

[vivsavage]

Do any of you use rules/concepts from 4e D&D for your 5e games? For example, the bloodied condition or minions. If so, what have you ported over and how well has it worked?

 

[jdrakeh]

The "bloodied" condition is one that I've seen almost every DM I've played 5e with use.

 

[cbwjm]

I've used the bloodied condition. I use this as both a descriptor of how far through an enemies hit points the players are as well as a trigger for reactions (though they can always do it, even if they've used their reaction).

I was trying to figure out minions, I think MCDM has a good way of doing them, but I haven't used them yet.

I have templates sort of based on the monster types in 4e, artillery, soldier, skirmishers, etc and I also have an elite template that turns a minion into a mini boss level character without going full legendary.

 

[vivsavage]

Are these templates you can apply to existing 5e monsters? Like a skirmisher owlbear?

 

[Yaarel]

The bloodied condition is quasi-official in 5e, since the description about hit points describes it explicitly.

It has no mechanics on its own, but is important in narrative adjudication, such as when using the Intimidation skill to force surrender.

 

[cbwjm]

Are these templates you can apply to existing 5e monsters? Like a skirmisher owlbear?

Yep, some are a little more basic than others, but they gave me a framework to quickly alter a creature. What I was using is below.

You could turn an owlbear into artillery by giving it an "acid spit" attack using constitution as its "spellcasting" stat granting it a ranged acid attack with +5 to hit dealing 1d10 acid damage. Of course you'll still want to run it as a melee monster, but if there are more than one, they might all spit acid before engaging in melee. Whereas if you apply the soldier template, it just gains a higher AC and a bonus on morale checks (no weapons so no need to change anything with its attacks).


Quick creature alterations
Take a regular (humanoid) creature and make the following changes. Other creatures could also be altered though the fiction will have to change. A giant snake with the artillery template might spit poison and use the magical artillery adjustments. If a creature is a thrown weapon artillery template, they might instead be firing quills (which could also be the standard artillery if preferred)

Artillery

• Artillery use ranged attacks. They gain a +2 bonus to hit (archery fighting style) and use a bow or other ranged weapon.
• Gain additional attacks so that they can attack at least twice with their ranged weapon as long as their base CR is 1 or higher.
• Thrown weapon artillery.
  • No +2 bonus to hit.
  • Gain a +2 bonus to damage with thrown weapons
• Magical Artillery.
  • No additional bonus to hit, but their minimum spellcasting ability modifier is +2, increasing to +5 for CR 12 or higher (i.e., +1 at CR 4, 8, and 12).
  • No additional attack.
  • Have a ranged cantrip that deals 1d10 elemental damage per tier.
    • Add control. Reduce the damage to d8 and add a slow effect (-10 feet) when hit.
  • Have a ranged AoE effect useable twice per encounter which deals 2d6 (+ 2d6/tier for CR 1 or higher).

Brute

• Brutes gain +3 hit points per hit die.
• Brutes are typically easier to hit, unless wearing armour, AC is equal to 12 + tier (13 to 16), though no higher than the standard creature. If wearing light or medium armour, calculate as if their dexterity is a 10 unless it is normally lower for the creature.
• Brutes deal more damage. Add 3 + tier level to their damage.
• Crushing Blow. On a critical hit, the brute deals 1 [W] extra damage. E.g., a greatsword would deal 4d6 normally on a critical hit, a crushing blow will deal 6d6 damage.
• Brutes have proficiency in Strength and Constitution saving throws.

Lurker

• High stealth (expertise) proficiency.
• Humanoids use a light melee or a ranged weapon (d6).
• Have a sneak attack ability which adds to their first attack (1d8 per tier)
• Have an ability to hide again.

Skirmisher

• Increase speed by 10 feet.
• Add a second attack. Light weapons only. Dual wields. Drop any shield they may have.
• Defensive ability. No opportunity attack from a target they made an attack against.
  • An orc would lose the greataxe and gain two handaxes allowing two attacks at 1d6+3 damage. They'd move faster than regular orcs, including the bonus action charge. If they attack two members of the party, they can move without risk of them making opportunity attacks.

Soldier

• Soldiers add a shield (+2 AC). Non-humanoids might have toughened scales or plating that increases their AC.
• Use a single handed weapon (1d8 damage) if they would otherwise not be. An orc soldier replaces their greataxe for a battleaxe and shield dealing less damage but improving their AC by 2.
• Soldiers have advantage on morale checks.

Elites

• Elites use the standard monster rules and could even be an artillery, brute, or soldier.
• Choose 2 Saving throws, they gain proficiency with those saves.
• Elites have advantage on saving throws that would stun, slow, or paralyse them.
• Maximise the base creature's hit points. A gnoll elite would have 40 (5d8) hit points. If they were also a brute, they would add 15 hit points for a total of 55.
• Elite Action. An elite can, once per round, move or make an attack at the end of a player's turn. It regains the ability to do so at the start of its turn.
• Rechargeable Actions. If the elite has an action that recharges on a die roll, it will recharge as soon as it is bloodied providing an additional use. All rechargeable actions are recharged in this way.
• CR increase. Unlike most templates which I don't bother with an increase in CR, for an Elite, boost their CR by 1 level.

Legendary creatures should use much of the elite template, superseding any features with an improved legendary form.

 

[cbwjm]

The bloodied condition is quasi-official in 5e, since the description about hit points describes it explicitly.

It has no mechanics on its own, but is important in narrative adjudication, such as when using the Intimidation skill to force surrender.

There are a few things that reference it, but they use the term half maximum hit points or something to that effect. Things like the champions regeneration or the life clerics channel divinity are capped at what could have been easily tagged as the bloodied condition.

 

[mamba]

The bloodied condition

Bloodied & Bruised – Main Volumes [BUNDLE] - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Bloodied & Bruised – Main Volumes [BUNDLE] - This special bundle product contains the following titles.Bloodied & Bruised Vol. 1 – Monster ManualRegular price:&nbs

www.dmsguild.com

 

[Fanaelialae]

I refer at creatures at or below half hp as bloodied. I use minions and solos from Flee Mortals, and elites from Level Up. All of them work great.

 

[zakael19]

Skill challenges / trials. Math isn’t nearly as good as 4e and Expertise really fucks with it, but the narrative payoff is solid.

Character design using powers, using some of the Flee Mortal’s math bashed into the 5e on a business card #s and 4e concepts (bonus actions that do interesting stuff, forced movement, dazed + lots more lesser impact “save ends” conditions).

I think everybody uses the bloodied descriptor, I’m starting to link recharge / ability triggers to it.