D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[Charlaquin]

The trigger can be pretty broad, so I would consider the chance of it not triggering pretty minimal (generally you would set the trigger to happen very quickly unless beneficial not to).

The reaction is actually a real cost. Fighters typically have lots of things they can do with a reaction, especially fighters that can cast.

The concentration is also a real cost that I feel like people keep glossing over. Even if the trigger happens very quickly afterwards, you can only concentrate on one spell at a time, so to do this you would have to drop your active concentration spell (you do have an active concentration spell, right? If not, you’re probably not using your resources optimally).

But all that said, I just can't get passed all the stuff already discussed. and am firmly with @Stalker0 on this one: It might be RAW at a stretch, but it's, for me, definitely not RAI.

none of us can know the designers’ intent unless they tell us. But to me it’s the most straightforward reading, and it seems both reasonably balanced and consistent with what the Ready Action is made for.

 

[Charlaquin]

Each action but Ready does one thing instantly, Ready does 'all the actions' but at a later time. It has a lot less in common with the other actions than those have with each other. That they all do different things does not change that and is expected (why have two actions that do the same thing)

If you cannot see that this makes Ready an outlier, I don't think there is much more to say here

Is it different than other Actions? Yes. Does this make it not an Action? No.

 

[mamba]

Is it different than other Actions? Yes. Does this make it not an Action? No.

I have a different answer to your second question... to me it is sufficiently different to be its own thing, and just placed near the 'other' actions for convenience

 

[Charlaquin]

I have a different answer to your second question... to me it is sufficiently different to be its own thing, and just placed near the 'other' actions for convenience

But it literally is classified by the rules as an Action. You can certainly argue that it shouldn’t be, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is.

 

[mamba]

But it literally is classified by the rules as an Action. You can certainly argue that it shouldn’t be, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is.

It is listed under actions, I do not argue that it is not mentioned there. I am saying it is so different from the others that I cannot see it as one of them, but only as a summary for how to delay any of the other actions and not as an action in itself.

Call it a should if you want to, I consider it so clearly not an action that even WotC listing it next to the actions does not make it one and was only done for textual proximity.

If WotC were infallible and always weighed things to the n-th degree, we would not have 100+ page discussions about how Hiding works and what Invisible means....

 

[Mort]

It is listed under actions, I do not argue that it is not mentioned there. I am saying it is so different from the others that I cannot see it as one of them, but only as a summary for how to delay any of the other actions and not as an action in itself.

Call it a should if you want to, I consider it so clearly not an action that even WotC listing it next to the actions does not make it one and was only done for textual proximity.

If WotC were infallible and always weighed things to the n-th degree, we would not have 100+ page discussions about how Hiding works and what Invisible means....

And if it really was this replacement action, where it worked while the magic action didn't:

What exactly is to prevent the player from voluntarily not holding the spell?

All it says is that HOLDING the spell requires concentration (later released by a reaction) - ok, so I voluntarily choose not hold, or to not break my current concentration. That means the spell goes off immediately, I still cast it right? And now I've just completely circumvented the magic action restriction with zero cost whatever.

Doesn't work for me.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I don’t even think this is a matter of “finding” some special interaction. It’s just the most straightforward reading of the rules.

I don't think so.
I think it needs a certain view on the rules to circumvent a limitiation in that way.
(My personal opinion.)

Action Surge says you can’t use it to take the Magic Action. The Ready Action is not the Magic Action. Since you can cast a spell with either action, I think it’s worth doing a closer reading to make sure that the most straightforward reading isn’t leading to an unintended interaction.

Yes. I think the designers should should never have ready made their own action.
Instead they should have allowed readying other actions.

And when I do so, I see that there are a bunch of additional restrictions on spells cast with the Ready Action, so the fact that it seems at a cursory reading to be usable in contexts where the Magic Action would not doesn’t strike me as “getting away with” something.

My first post was along that line too. I don't expect you to read every post I ever made, but I wanted to mention that I am not totally against such a ruling. It has quite some cost attached so it is no straight rules exploit in my opinion. Just some unwanted interaction that might technically be legal.

Furthermore, the entire point of the Ready Action is to allow you to take Actions at times you wouldn’t normally be able to.

But not something a magic action can do if facilitated with action surge.
Again. In my opinion.

So, again, using it to cast a spell when you wouldn’t be able to with the Magic Action seems perfectly consistent with the intended function of the Ready Action to me.

Not to me.

Obviously, if I was a player at someone else’s table who ruled as you did, I wouldn’t argue.

That is fine and appreciated.

There’s enough ambiguity that I can understand why they would come to a different conclusion than I did, and even if there wasn’t, there‘s a time and place to debate rules interpretations, and it’s not at the table in the middle of an ongoing game.

Exactly.

It’s here, on forums dedicated to that kind of discussion, while I’m on my lunch break at work.

Perfect place to do so.

 

[Charlaquin]

It is listed under actions, I do not argue that it is not mentioned there. I am saying it is so different from the others that I cannot see it as one of them, but only as a summary for how to delay any of the other actions and not as an action in itself.

Call it a should if you want to, I consider it so clearly not an action that even WotC listing it next to the actions does not make it one and was only done for textual proximity.

If WotC were infallible and always weighed things to the n-th degree, we would not have 100+ page discussions about how Hiding works and what Invisible means....

it’s an action. It’s in the Actions section, and the rules consistently reference and treat it as an Action. Performing it costs the use of your one Action per turn. Regardless of how its rules for resolution may be different than the rules for resolving other Actions, it is in all ways that matter an Action.

 

[Charlaquin]

And if it really was this replacement action, where it worked while the magic action didn't:

What exactly is to prevent the player from voluntarily not holding the spell?

All it says is that HOLDING the spell requires concentration (later released by a reaction) - ok, so I voluntarily choose not hold, or to not break my current concentration. That means the spell goes off immediately, I still cast it right? And now I've just completely circumvented the magic action restriction with zero cost whatever.

Doesn't work for me.

If you don’t maintain concentration until the specified trigger, the resources spent to cast the spell are lost. This is explicitly stated in the rules for the Ready Action.